If you are a mum looking after your kids day to day, did give realise you were a ‘SAHM’ before coming on MN?

[sangak]

It always strikes me, that MN always has much to say about so-called ‘SAHMs.’ But if you said ‘SAHM’ (pronouncing it as ‘Sarm’) in real-life, nobody would know what this is. I know many women who don’t work due to children / family, but not one of them would know they were ‘Sarms’ or even recognise what ‘SAHM’ stands for - or that it is even considered ‘a thing.’ Just seems weird that the whole debate on here is so removed from real life.

The thing I find most bizarre about this is that you appear to have never discussed work/careers etc. with any of your friends. It's a normal topic because work is a major source of interest and purpose to many people. Have you really never heard any of your friends say things like:

"Now my kids are a bit older, I've wondered about getting back into part-time work. Maybe I should volunteer somewhere, what do you think?"
"You know, I've been thinking of going back to college and training to do [job]. I think I might really enjoy it, what do you reckon?"
"Have you ever thought about getting a job at some point when your youngest is more independent?"

Because those are all pretty normal things to discuss with friends. Talking about being a SAHM or about work doesn't have to consist of announcing "I am a SAHM".

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

In real life people say they don’t work, I’ve never heard anyone say they are a stay at home parent. Surely most people just say I’m employed as x or I don’t work. Forums usually have acronyms.

"I don't work" opens itself up to judgement or further questions. . Some variation on I'm a stay at home Mom answers all that.

husband and I never even discussed it. He’s never asked if I want to go back to work or not.

Like, how on earth can this happen? How can you be married to someone and never, ever discuss something like this? He's really never asked whether you want to work again at some point, even just in passing?

Or even realised that people put you in a ‘SAHM’ category with other SAHMs, just based on this one aspect of your life. but we do this about everything. We put people into a category based on genitals, educations, marital status, having kids, job types etc when it's relevant to the conversation.

@GetMeOut22

I think you have an odd social circle to be surrounded by so many women with small children who don't work in this decade. I, on the other hand, have never met a woman my age-ish who had kids and didn't go back to work after mat leave. Not one....every SAHM I've met is 20 years older at least.

We one could say the same about you're social circle, it's equally limited

CSJobseeker - well to be honest, I think before he proposed or thereabouts he did tell me that when we had children he would want me with them. So I suppose that was a context. Then, after I had the kids, I never had an overwhelming reason to think about it. In his cultural background, men don’t generally have the expectation that the wife will work, unless it’s absolutely necessary. Also he is a workaholic personality. So there is that as well. I don’t think it ever occurred to him to do things differently. Many of his friends and work colleagues are the same. It’s more common than not in his sphere. Life is busy and you just get on with it.

@sangak

CSJobseeker - well to be honest, I think before he proposed or thereabouts he did tell me that when we had children he would want me with them. So I suppose that was a context. Then, after I had the kids, I never had an overwhelming reason to think about it. In his cultural background, men don’t generally have the expectation that the wife will work, unless it’s absolutely necessary. Also he is a workaholic personality. So there is that as well. I don’t think it ever occurred to him to do things differently. Many of his friends and work colleagues are the same. It’s more common than not in his sphere. Life is busy and you just get on with it.

I honestly couldn't live with someone who had so little respect or consideration for my feelings. Even if it was discussed when he proposed, it has not occurred to him in all these years to ever ask if you're still happy with that set up?

Incidentally, my dh comes from one of those cultures too, but he is intelligent enough to recognise that his cultural assumptions are just that.

He knows I’m not unhappy so it’s not been an issue.

@sangak

CSJobseeker - well to be honest, I think before he proposed or thereabouts he did tell me that when we had children he would want me with them. So I suppose that was a context. Then, after I had the kids, I never had an overwhelming reason to think about it. In his cultural background, men don’t generally have the expectation that the wife will work, unless it’s absolutely necessary. Also he is a workaholic personality. So there is that as well. I don’t think it ever occurred to him to do things differently. Many of his friends and work colleagues are the same. It’s more common than not in his sphere. Life is busy and you just get on with it.

If you were working before you had your first child you must have at some point given your notice, right? Or were they expecting you to go back to work and you just never did?

@sangak

He knows I’m not unhappy so it’s not been an issue.

Unusual way to put it. Normally you’d write he knows I’m happy. Not being unhappy doesn’t actually mean the person is happy.

I guess if the expectation is you need to stay home and do th domestic work and you accept that. I can see how the conversation would never arise. It wouldn’t be for me, but we are all different.

I’m not sure with secondary kids I’d still consider you a stay at home mum, more a housewife, as you’re not really doing full time child rearing any more

@sangak

CSJobseeker - well to be honest, I think before he proposed or thereabouts he did tell me that when we had children he would want me with them. So I suppose that was a context. Then, after I had the kids, I never had an overwhelming reason to think about it. In his cultural background, men don’t generally have the expectation that the wife will work, unless it’s absolutely necessary. Also he is a workaholic personality. So there is that as well. I don’t think it ever occurred to him to do things differently. Many of his friends and work colleagues are the same. It’s more common than not in his sphere. Life is busy and you just get on with it.

You’re well-suited, then, if it never occurred to either of you to talk about a major joint financial decision.

I read it as Saaaaam, then translate it to the words. I'd never heard of it till mumsnet though I was familiar with DH.
No one asks about work where I live but it is a deprived area.

sangak its becoming fairly clear that you're looking at the question of mothers working through a specific cultural lens. Is it not just your husband but in fact most people you know who are part of the Iranian (maybe) community in a UK (presumably?) city?
Your experience is your own but you must know its specific to your community!

I think perhaps you move in a social circle where you don't know many women with jobs?

Where I live most women work. So when you encounter someone its perfectly to normal to ask what they do, and the few women who have chosen to be a sahm describe themselves that way. Although the women who are only off 2 or 3 years while children are very young tend not to and make it clear they plan to return to work.

If it works for you and you're happy, great, but it is alien to me.

Over the course of the years, DH and I have discussed work/career/life plans a lot. If one of us is stressed at work, we talk about whether that person could go part time, or what other job options are available. We talk about the impact of our work on pensions, when we might expect to be able to retire etc. I worked part-time in the past while studying, and we discussed what sort of hours it would be realistic for me to do. We've talked about what sort of jobs we might do if we downsized and moved somewhere cheaper.

The idea that work would simply never come up as a topic of conversation seems so odd.

men don’t generally have the expectation that the wife will work, unless it’s absolutely necessary.

Even this language belies a different cultural position to mine. My husbands expectations have relatively little bearing on MY choice to work.

OP, are you from a different religious or cultural background to the UK? Somewhere much more conservative? If so, it might explain your POV at bit more!

"Sarm" 😂😂😂

Where are people finding OP (pronounced "opp")'s other posts?

It's clear she's referring to a very niche situation but being very disingenuous by not revealing it here. So peculiar.

The most usual question among people I know would have been 'when do you go back to work/when does your maternity leave end?'.

Op doesn't sound stupid so I can only conclude that she is massively disingenuous with the whole 'we never discussed working' schtick.

She's either on benefits and from generations of people who have never worked, or she's married a rich man and is from a culturally conservative background. Most bizarre that she's been so coy about this. "Outing", no doubt. 😵‍💫

To try to answer without being too specific, yes there are some cultural differences, though I don’t want to over-emphasise that and anyway, I don’t think that’s unusual. We live in the middle of London and it’s a multicultural society after all! My husband and I are not from the same culture and don’t live in a cultural enclave. Yes there is a Middle Eastern community, but obviously we’re not restricted to that. Most of my female friends are European probably, but it’s a mix. There is an ex-pat community as well, but generally it’s quite international. And of course I know women who work! I know some extremely successful women. What I’m saying is, I’ve never felt ‘judged’ for being a SAHM by anyone. Literally nobody has anything to say about it in (my) real life - men or women, working or not. I guess generally people just take you for who you are.

I often have discussions on MN that I wouldn’t have with my friends in real life. That doesn’t mean they’re not important and valid discussions. Equally just because someone has never mentioned something to you, doesn’t mean they don’t have opinions on it.

This is so bonkers. Of course no one goes around in real life declaring they are a stay at home mum or a working mum or collecting benefits or whatever for no reason. But in my social group there are all three and we generally know who is who and sometimes we have discussions about work and sometimes the stay at home mums don't contribute to those discussions. They don't think us working mums are all a bunch of bores because we talk about work sometimes. It's about 75% of my week tbh.

“ Equally just because someone has never mentioned something to you, doesn’t mean they don’t have opinions on it.”

Well yes, but equally I can hold opinions on them! That’s just human nature. In general though, people just get over it. There are a million-and-one reasons why women might SAH and they do so across a massive range of circumstances, nationally and globally.

It's great that you haven't felt judged, OP, and nor should you be. However, you clearly feel that your own personal experience is more representative than it actually is.

From your latest post, it sounds like you move within a largely expat community, where there are probably lots of trailing spouses. This perhaps explains your experience a bit.

“ What I’m saying is, I’ve never felt ‘judged’ for being a SAHM by anyone.”

I’m really genuinely pleased that that is the case, because that is exactly as it should be. If you had started a thread on here saying that, and wondering about the contrast with MN where you have seen judgement, then that would have been another matter. It would have been a bunfight of a thread covering all sorts of issues that have been well thrashed out on here, but maybe it would have better reflected what you are trying to say as an OP. The baffling bit about self-declaration as a “sarm” has rather got you off track if that’s not what you meant to talk about.

FWIW my MIL didn’t go back to work after having her first child, and always felt very judged, and this was 30 years ago with no social media and plenty of other women making the same choice. Her own father said “why did we send you to a good school if you were just going to waste it by not working?” It was horrible.

@sangak

“ Equally just because someone has never mentioned something to you, doesn’t mean they don’t have opinions on it.”

Well yes, but equally I can hold opinions on them! That’s just human nature. In general though, people just get over it. There are a million-and-one reasons why women might SAH and they do so across a massive range of circumstances, nationally and globally.

So really, this whole confusing thread could have been avoided if you’d have started your post with ‘am I being unseasonable to think that people don’t judge you in real life for being a SAHM like they do on here?’. Would have been a starting point for a proper discussion. Instead it’s taken pages and pages of discussions about ‘sarms’ to actually figure out your point!

Yes, people judge people. Yes, it’s human nature. Yes, some people judge SAHM’s (in real life and on here). Yes, people judge WOHM’s (in real life and on here). Yes, it’s entirely up to you and your family how you organise your time and your finances. No, that doesn’t mean it isn’t a discussion point on forums like MN where people are usually posting due to some issues with their family set up. Yes, people tend to discuss things more openly on anonymous forums than they do in real life (I would never tell someone to their face that I thought they were unwise to give up their financial independence, but I would say it to someone on here if that’s what their thread was about).
Final point… no, no one says ‘sarm’.