School aren't helping with morning routine

[Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower]

My dd has always been anxious. Since starting back at school she has had serious meltdowns every morning, crying for up to forty minutes, shaking walking to school. At her age this behaviour is quite unusual, especially as she was better (1-2 meltdowns at drop off per week) in previous years. I feel it's sensory, as she is perfectly happy walking to school and excited to see friends but seizes up and bolts for the gate as soon as she gets in the playground. It's quite different from last year (covid) as all the kids are in the playground together as well as all the parents, dogs, teachers etc and she just can't tolerate the noise, chaos of it.
School have offered a breakfast club so she can avoid this. There's not a breakfast club currently apart from for kids with additional needs and low income families, so there's about six kids who attend in the whole school. My dd went yesterday and loved it, the school said she was calm and ready to join the class at lesson time. However, they can not accommodate my ds who is also at school. So if my dd goes I then have a 45 minute wait with him, not enough time to go home, no park local and it's cold and wet. I feel this is really unfair and might impact on his feelings about school, as he has to leave home earlier and will have a long wait before starting.
Can I push this and should I as he does not fit the criteria?

@FortunesFavour

I’m really shocked by the posters agreeing that the breakfast club should take a non-SEN child for the convenience of school runs. Ridiculous entitlement. I feel sorry for the school. They are not required to lay on extra staff and facilities for your convenience.

She said it was for low income families too. Not just sen children.

[quote Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower]@PotteringAlong I agree but what am I supposed to do? I have two children. [/quote]
What does everyone else do? You'd have enoughbto say of everyone starts bringing siblings. Some people have four siblings in school , that would mean there are so many more children.

I think you need to see GP or school nurse about your daughter's anxiety. They might be able to refer you on. You don't say what year she's in but that sounds extreme.

@TeenMinusTests

I think school is being unreasonable. If all the pupils have siblings then they could open up a separate room for the siblings, even if all they do is sit and read. Not reasonable to ask them to hang around in cold/rain for 45mins.

Have you tried arriving later, so just when the bell rings to go in, or 5 mins after that if permitted?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Seriously some people on here have no idea!! Let's just open up another room, pay staff and accommodate other children. Where is this money coming from?! Maybe parents need to sort the problems and not give everything for the school to sort.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable for you to talk to the school about how pleased you are that your DD has been offered a place in the breakfast club but also to ask for some help with making it work for your DS too. It may be that they agree to take both children for 15 minutes or that they're unable to take DS at all because his age means different ratios are needed but without having that conversation, they don't know you're struggling and you won't know if he can be accommodated.

OP

I’m cutting through weeds here. It’s absolutely reasonable to speak to the school about what is going on and to see if their proposed solution (breakfast club) can somehow accommodate your family set up. Please schedule a meeting or a time to phone them. It’s not asking to much at all to just discuss it.

I have no magical cafes near me nor could I find a childminder for a short window in the morning… honestly, speak to the school. They are trying to help and they’ll need your feedback.

It’s great you’ve almost got a solution … it’s not cheeky to discuss it with the school.

If they can’t make it work with your DS maybe you’ll have to drop her in the breakfast club door about 10 mins before school and hang about with your son (which isn’t ideal in the depths of winter), or perhaps go back to the idea of a separate door for her to use to get into school and skip breakfast club altogether?

Ok - This is what I would do -

Schedule a meeting or phone call with the right people from the school to discuss 1) additional needs support generally and 2) the getting into school issue

Have some suggestions for how getting into school could work.

Your school sounds nice, good luck and please keep us posted. It sounds tough on your poor DD and you’re right to keep an eye on making school a positive experience for DS.

@Lazypuppy

There must be a cafe or something you can go in and have breakfast with your son?

No there really " mustn't "! Not all schools are in urban areas with shops and cafes. And having breakfast in a cafe every day is very expensive!

YABU in starting this thread stating the school won't help, when, in reality, you haven't even asked them if your DS can attend breakfast club.

You say the school are "hinting" at how they can help, but it is up to you to ask what help they can offer you. You need to push for the help your dd needs.

If they cannot accommodate your ds due to ratios then it's up to you to try to find an alternative solution that works for you all. Then ask if she can arrive 5/10 mins early and wait next to the office or enter through a separate entrance.

Having read the updates that there is in fact a paid for breakfast club the DS could attend, albeit not on the same site, I think the school is being less unreasonable in not offering their club to the DS too.

It shouldn't be needed to get there 45mins early to avoid noise and bustle though, and a different solution should be possible.

Ask the school if they can take the DS too as otherwise it's a logistical nightmare for you. Worse case scenario is that they say no.
It doesn't make you overentitled or anything, you have the right to ask.
You will always get either those, who walked their children to school barefoot, with one baby strapped to the front and breast-feeding and the other one on their back and waited for two hours for the school to start to off-load their two other children, spending time talking the fine nuances of quantum physics, while sitting in lashing rain on garden plastic chairs.
Or those, who see no problem with a young child waiting for almost an hour outside, no matter the weather. Certainly, you could also find the nearest cafe, don't buy your children any food or washing powder and instead have an essential capuccino and hot chocolate for your child.

Can you drive DD and DS to school for 8:15, drive home and then walk with DS to school when it's time to go?

its not dissimilar to having dc at different schools or sessions really - so I am afraid you will have to accept it.

I don’t think you are being entitled OP, and I work in a school. I would explain your situation to the school and ask if he can either join the breakfast club or ask if she can arrive 5mins late to school. Bear in mind a longer day may not be great for either of your children. I would ask for the slightly later start.

OP, you seem to be being very passive about this issue, having not even asked if your son can attend and also complaining that no-one has sat you down to talk about the situation with your daughter- you need to be a bit more proactive rather than just jumping the the conclusion that the school is being unhelpful. First thing ask if your son can attend and secondly book an appointment with the SENDCO to discuss your daughter. Unfortunately schools don’t have the resources to hold parents hands, so you need to speak up yourself. Although it does sound like the school are being very considerate offering your daughter the breakfast club place at no cost.

@JaniieJones

Oh op as many have said just because she has been offered a breakfast club slot does not mean she must be there for a full 45 mins.

The trigger is the crowded noisy playground so you ask if she can just go in 10mins early, stay in breakfast club until the bell goes while you are then waiting in the playground with your ds. Alternatively do the trip twice and you've said you are walking distance.

Exactly this. I coordinate the breakfast club at my school and we have done precisely the same in very similar situations in the past.

@PotteringAlong I agree but what am I supposed to do? I have two children

Not the school's problem @Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower

I can really sympathise here. I have a 9 year old with SEN and a younger child who doesn't. It can be stressful, tiring and overwhelming.

Here's the options I would consider OP:

1. Explain the situation and ask school if DS can join breakfast club. They may say no but it's worth asking.
2. Ask school if there's somewhere you can sit with DS for 45 mins if you drop DD off at breakfast club. Again they may say no but worth asking
3. Drop DD off at breakfast club 15/20 mins early rather than 45 mins to lessen the time that you and DS need to wait
4. Drive to school and wait in the car with DS with snacks and activities
5. Drive to school and then drive home again to spend 20/30 mins at home with DS
6. Pay £5 to send DS to the breakfast club, even if you can't afford it every day
7. Ask a friend or family member to help out in the mornings

I would also speak to school and the GP about starting the diagnosis and assessment process for your DD.

@Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower

Sorry I should add that it is absolutely not my motive to bully school into offering ds a place. I just hoped that they would offer a solution such as that she would get to go in through a quieter entrance or something. Now they've told her about breakfast club I feel awful by saying I can't make it work. The school have been amazing but I'm very aware that my son is also a pupil there and I'm supposed to be setting him up for a full day of learning. I'm not sure if his teacher would feel I was doing that if he has had to wait in the rain for 45 minutes prior to school starting. I can't afford a cafe trip every day and no other parent lives locally. There is a paying breakfast club at the end of our road but it's £5 a day and I can't justify that, plus he would have less time at home in the mornings. I just don't want to ruin school for him as he quite likes it so far (he's in reception).

You can't justify £5 a day? I'd say that was a bargain if the alternative is, your reception age DS standing in the cold and wet for 45 minutes before school starts.

Lots of people have offered up valid options and you haven’t actually responded to them, which is quite rude. How can anyone be expected to help you when you don’t clarify significant details?

1. Do you drive and just choose not to for the school run, therefore you could sit in the car with DS until it opens?
2. Do you have a partner at home, therefore they could mind DS until you walk/drive back and then take him at the normal time?
3. Do the school have anywhere you and DS could potentially sit to shelter out of the winter weather?
4. Are there any local amenities in the area you could shelter in? Going to a cafe doesn’t mean spending a fortune every day- you could easily buy a water/small baked good (a brownie, etc) and still sit in.

It’s very hard for anyone to help if you don’t want to clarify details. It gives the impression that you don’t actually want workable solutions, but to complain that the school won’t take your DS which puts you out in the morning, and to complain you don’t want to spend the money on another breakfast club.

@Dahliadelight

Why does she have to go 45 minutes early? Could it be for a smaller amount of time so you don’t have to wait for so long.

I think this is a really good suggestion. Perhaps just 15 or 20 minutes?

It's always a balancing act when you have more than one child. Your DD needs this whereas DS doesn't. Is there a park or a little walk you could go to for the wait?

45 minutes in the playground before school every day will be great for your son! It has been proven that children who run around before school are far better at concentrating in the classroom. You'll just have to take a thermos and good waterproofs!

Just bring a packed lunch and have it with your DS in the playground. Whether it’s raining or not he’ll love it provided you are dressed appropriately.

Instead of complaining you should be extremely grateful for what they've already done for you.

They are doing you a favour having your DD in early.

And here we have what is wrong with the world today. Schools being inclusive and working with kids who have problems is seen as the school doing the parent a favour.

A fucking favour. Schools actually have a responsibility to make sure the children it is charged with caring with have the same access to education regardless of individual needs. OP isn’t saying it is more convenient for her to have her daughter at breakfast club, she is saying her child finds accessing school incredibly difficult and is having severe emotional problems every day because of it. Of course the school need to work with parents in this situation. And let’s not forget there is additional funding they get to help children in this situation.

Telling OP that they are doing her a favour in order to help her child, who may well have some undiagnosed SEN, is the equivalent of me telling you, your teacher is doing your kids a favour turning up every day to teach.

YABU OP 🙄