School aren't helping with morning routine

[Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower]

My dd has always been anxious. Since starting back at school she has had serious meltdowns every morning, crying for up to forty minutes, shaking walking to school. At her age this behaviour is quite unusual, especially as she was better (1-2 meltdowns at drop off per week) in previous years. I feel it's sensory, as she is perfectly happy walking to school and excited to see friends but seizes up and bolts for the gate as soon as she gets in the playground. It's quite different from last year (covid) as all the kids are in the playground together as well as all the parents, dogs, teachers etc and she just can't tolerate the noise, chaos of it.
School have offered a breakfast club so she can avoid this. There's not a breakfast club currently apart from for kids with additional needs and low income families, so there's about six kids who attend in the whole school. My dd went yesterday and loved it, the school said she was calm and ready to join the class at lesson time. However, they can not accommodate my ds who is also at school. So if my dd goes I then have a 45 minute wait with him, not enough time to go home, no park local and it's cold and wet. I feel this is really unfair and might impact on his feelings about school, as he has to leave home earlier and will have a long wait before starting.
Can I push this and should I as he does not fit the criteria?

Sorry but posters suggesting the OP does something meaningful or fun every morning. Really???
45 mins every morning with a 4 year old in winter outdoors when he could be at home having breakfast and getting ready - this is not the real world .

This. And even if there was one I wouldn't be wanting to go every day.

I did have a similar issue when my kids were smaller with the time gap between school and preschool which was also about 40 minutes and with younger kids. I'm lucky that there is lovely countryside and a country park all walkable between the schools so it was OK ... and like PP said we just waterproofed up on bad days. And that was there exercise for the day done!
However that's not so easy in urban areas.
Maybe drop DS off with a friend on the route in and then go back and pick him and his mate up and walk them in together. That way you're returning the favour a bit.

*their 🙄

No way there aren't other kids close to the school.

Just bring a packed lunch and have it with your DS in the playground. Whether it’s raining or not he’ll love it provided you are dressed appropriately.

Can people stop making suggestions like this. A kid running around what will be an empty playground for most of that time is not a solution. Most schools bring kids in early when it is chucking it down because they realise that actually, having damp kids and all their wet weather gear sitting about does not work well.

@Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower

I suppose what I'm a bit in the dark about is that suddenly my dd is being offered all this extra support and special help and no one has sat me down and said what it all means. It's like it's being hinted at but I want to know what they're alluding too. I'm a strong woman I can take it.

This stands out for me and I think you need to ask for a meeting to discuss this, plus reiterate your request for senco support and an assessment by an educational psychologist. If they are not willing to offer the latter two, you can get in contact with your local authority's SEN team to discuss. I recommend applying for an EHC assessment - which is the first step in getting an EHC plan. Schools are often unwilling to do this for funding and staffing reasons, but you have the right to request it yourself. If they are offering her a SEN space at breakfast club, I wonder if they've already put her at the internal school SEN register (don't know what the official name for this is, sorry), and the local authority I think would be able to see this. They were for my DC anyway.

It can be a long road to get help for children like your DD who kind of manage once they're in school, but know that it often gets harder for them in secondary and having diagnosis/support/assessments before she takes that jump is really helpful.

I'd find it hard to occupy a 4 year old for 45 minutes on a cold winter's morning as well. Our school doesn't open school gates until 10 minutes before class time starts and even though we live in a city there are no cafe's that open before 9am.

I know this has been asked before, but I don't think it was answered. What about driving? In that situation, I would drop one kid and just wait in the car with the other one. Even if you can't drive, it might be worth learning so that you can make all your lives easier. What do you normally do on a wet morning - do you always walk no matter what the weather's like?

WE did it the other way, and DS (and DD) were bought in 5 minutes late so the playground was empty.

Why can’t your partner drop off your daughter or wait with your son while you drop her off.
Isn’t that what would normally happen.

I've never been a member of the "when life gives you lemons..." or polyanna brigade, but I can't see that half an hour running around outside before school is going to be anything but beneficial for a 4/5 year old child. If it's pelting rain, they can sit in the car/a cafe/reception and read or watch a tablet, but most days will be fine if dressed properly. Most children don't do nearly enough exercise and here's a chance for this child to up his activity levels and work off his excess energy before school.

I agree it's a bit shit for the OP, though, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing for her DS. It's like dragging your kids to the playground on rainy days... good for them, but you sit and shiver and think "Is this my life?"

@Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower

No I don't drive to school, I particularly chose a school I could walk to work from afterwards so I wouldn't have to drive.

Come on OP, this is your option. Leave the car near the school if you want to walk to work.

@TeenMinusTests

I think school is being unreasonable. If all the pupils have siblings then they could open up a separate room for the siblings, even if all they do is sit and read. Not reasonable to ask them to hang around in cold/rain for 45mins.

Have you tried arriving later, so just when the bell rings to go in, or 5 mins after that if permitted?

Who is going to supervise those extra children? Also have you ever seen a room of primary aged children that will actually sit and read a book for 45 minutes, they could be a mix of ages from 5 - 11.

A fuckingfavour. Schools actually have a responsibility to make sure the children it is charged with caring with have the same access to education regardless of individual needs

This isnt quite right and your interpretation is problematic. The legal situation is explained here

School obligations actually are only to provide an 'adequate education appropriate the the childs age, Sn and medical needs. They are not normally responsible for the child getting to school (the LEA may be if the child is responsible for school transport). If the parent cant get the child in the school gate that's not actually generally the schools responsibility (unless the reason is because a failure of school provision and this can end up a horribly messy legal argument).

If the OP can't get the child into school, that's not the schools responsibility. School are doing a favour in offering the OP a provision that might make a difference.

The school have already gone above and beyond their legal obligations.

School are doing you a huge favour!

Can’t you walk back home with DS or find a cafe/library/shop nearby to entertain him?

I would ask if I could drop her in 20 minutes beforehand, take the son for a walk until its time for him to go in.

I think you need to see a GP. School aren't going to offer a diagnosis on your daughter because they aren't doctors.
I absolutely knew my DD2 had autism but the school refused to listen until I got the official diagnosis. So at least they have offered you help. My DD was having meltdowns in Y5 and 6 but we weren't offered anything.
It's a shame they can't take your son too but those are the rules. Could you pay an older teenager or retired person to take one or other to school for you?

@Peanutsandchilli

I think school is being unreasonable in this situation tbh. If the club was packed with kids then I could understand it, but it isn't. My daughter had a difficult time getting herself to high school due to anxiety. So much so, that we had education welfare on our backs. They offered her a seat on the school minibus and came to pick her up every morning. I asked if they'd take her sister too, and it wasn't a problem because they saw it as her sister supporting her to do something overwhelming. They wouldn't have just picked any child up though, so it wasn't setting any sort of precedent.

I don't see why he can't attend as support for her.

What if everyone's siblings wanted to go? You're completely missing the point. The club is for SEN children sonits a quiet and inclusive environment. If everyone's siblings turned up then it wouldn't be that any more and the op as well as other parents would be back to square one

For a start someone should do something about the dogs! That would make a nervous child even worse. Not all dogs stand quietly by their owners.
Can you arrive at school as everyone has left or is leaving? Or coming in another entrance is a good solution providing there is someone who can accompany her to her class. Breakfast club sounds ideal, just arrive at 8.45 if allowed. If not, drive in for 8.15 then back home and walk ds back.
Have a few ideas in your mind that could be workable and then discuss with the school. I think you are overreacting at the moment. They have come up with a solution that your dd enjoyed so a compromise on time would be worth a discussion. Having your ds attend as well should be a last resort. As he's only 4 it might not be an option anyway.

How far away is the school from home?
I’d seriously consider taking the car to drop off dd and either wait in the car with ds then leave the car there or if you have time drive the car home and walk back.

But you can’t expect the school to accommodate your ds when you haven’t even asked them, sounds like they’ve been quick off the mark to help your dd though.

What do you do at pick up if you don’t finish until 6 ?

When I was teaching, the usual solution to extreme distress at drop off was to go to her own classroom 15 mins or so early. Would the class teacher not consider this?

@Caramellatteplease

School obligations actually are only to provide an 'adequate education appropriate the the childs age, Sn and medical needs. They are not normally responsible for the child getting to school (the LEA may be if the child is responsible for school transport). If the parent cant get the child in the school gate that's not actually generally the schools responsibility (unless the reason is because a failure of school provision and this can end up a horribly messy legal argument).

The OP says she can get her child into the gate but then she tries to bolt. From the OP:

“…but seizes up and bolts for the gate as soon as she gets in the playground“

So absolutely it is the school’s responsibility to settle her and they aren’t doing her some massive favour.

OP, we had a similar situation and school were quite happy to accommodate our other child. He chose not to as he’d rather play with his friends in the playground, but school made it clear that the option was their for him. Quite often the siblings of children with special needs are forgotten. DS2 is often left distressed because of his brother’s meltdowns and poor thing suffers enough from having to accommodate his brother’s needs. This is nothing like after school clubs as there is some give and take where everyone takes it in turns to wait around and everyone benefits in turn.

@PizzaCrust sorry I'm at work I can't reply but I am reading and taking it all in. I don't see that as rude.

Your title is very unfair. If every child in the club had their siblings there it wouldn't be the calm environment you need for your own daughter.

@Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower

No I don't drive to school, I particularly chose a school I could walk to work from afterwards so I wouldn't have to drive.

Can you drive though? if so drive your DD to breakfast club, drive home and then get your son ready and walk with him?

OP, it does sound as though your DD might have sensory issues, but how does she get on at break/ lunchtime? These are quite possibly staggered and not as busy as just before school, but they are surely also quite noisy. If she manages these sessions well enough, then it might be worth exploring further what makes the start of the school day such a trigger.

Besides that, as a school governor I can tell you that every penny counts and that's why the breakfast club can't accommodate your DS as well. Staffing ratios might mean that they can't even take on one extra child; opening the club to all siblings (which they would have to do if they took your DS) certainly won't be affordable. Meanwhile, schools can't just open up a room for siblings and leave a gang of children of potentially all ages to their own devices.

It looks as though the most obvious solution is to ask for your DD to attend breakfast club for 15 minutes or so.