School aren't helping with morning routine

[Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower]

My dd has always been anxious. Since starting back at school she has had serious meltdowns every morning, crying for up to forty minutes, shaking walking to school. At her age this behaviour is quite unusual, especially as she was better (1-2 meltdowns at drop off per week) in previous years. I feel it's sensory, as she is perfectly happy walking to school and excited to see friends but seizes up and bolts for the gate as soon as she gets in the playground. It's quite different from last year (covid) as all the kids are in the playground together as well as all the parents, dogs, teachers etc and she just can't tolerate the noise, chaos of it.
School have offered a breakfast club so she can avoid this. There's not a breakfast club currently apart from for kids with additional needs and low income families, so there's about six kids who attend in the whole school. My dd went yesterday and loved it, the school said she was calm and ready to join the class at lesson time. However, they can not accommodate my ds who is also at school. So if my dd goes I then have a 45 minute wait with him, not enough time to go home, no park local and it's cold and wet. I feel this is really unfair and might impact on his feelings about school, as he has to leave home earlier and will have a long wait before starting.
Can I push this and should I as he does not fit the criteria?

@Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower

No I don't drive to school, I particularly chose a school I could walk to work from afterwards so I wouldn't have to drive.

Is there no possibility of driving to school and sitting with your DS in the car…you could do reading/games/snacks. Then drive home and back out to work. I appreciate this isn’t what you had in mind when you picked the school but parenting is all about the goalposts moving and having to adapt and compromise. I think you need to take on board the compromise here, it can’t be the school.

Do any of the other breakfast club kids have a sibling? Perhaps you could team up and do alternate one of you walks both to breakfast club and the other keeps the siblings for 45 mins?

How old are both children?

Could you volunteer to help at the breakfast club?

It's fine for you to ask, surely? They can say no. With your son being in reception I can totally see your issue. If he can't go to breakfast club then just send her for 20 minutes.

Sorry, that reads badly!

I meant, you're 100% not acting entitled to ask if your DS can go too. It doesn't hurt to ask. The school may be OK with it, in which case that would be great.

@Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower

I suppose what I'm a bit in the dark about is that suddenly my dd is being offered all this extra support and special help and no one has sat me down and said what it all means. It's like it's being hinted at but I want to know what they're alluding too. I'm a strong woman I can take it.

You might want to ask in the SN sections:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs_chat

where you will get more helpful advice.

I know how draining the constant morning meltdowns are, and then everything then looks like another obstacle.

Speak to the school SENCO, and see if there is any local group for SEN in your area where you might get some support. It's really difficult when you have no idea what might be on offer and then you're asked to say what support you need.

Here are the things I would suggest:

• ask the school if DD can go in to breakfast club 15 mins early rather than 45 mins - (they may say no if it would disrupt the other children who need a calm, set morning routine).
• if that's not an option, is there a TA who can come out to the gate to meet DD and take her straight in? This is what school have offered to my DD and it works.
• Or can your DD go in through a different entrance, e.g. the main reception rather than through the playground? I know some schools will facilitate this.
• Or could she have a 'job' to do - standing by the teacher holding the bell, standing at the door to open it for everyone, going to her classroom 2 minutes early to put the pencil pots out, something that gives her a purpose rather than milling around in the centre of the chaos.

I would also be looking into autism presentation in girls, sensory processing disorder, and interoception problems to see if any of those ring any bells for you. Even if it's just a "could be this," once you have a framework to hang it on, you can look into what works for other people and try those things yourself.

OP try to ignore some of these comments. I agree waiting around for 45 minutes outdoors in the morning is ridiculous. I don’t understand people saying that would be fun. My DD would hate that. A miserable start to the day. Try to see if your DD can go in just 10 mins early. If not then just advise them that the breakfast club will not work (I’m sure they’ll understand) and ask if you can just let her go in through a quieter entrance. I have seen my DDs school do this by letting a child in through the office/reception. I’m sure they will accommodate.

@Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower

I suppose what I'm a bit in the dark about is that suddenly my dd is being offered all this extra support and special help and no one has sat me down and said what it all means. It's like it's being hinted at but I want to know what they're alluding too. I'm a strong woman I can take it.

But you've said yourself she has had meltdowns going to schools previously. So you not see there is an issue? What help have you asked for? Have you spoken to the GP? Do you think she needs an assessment and formal diagnosis?

Could you send your son to the breakfast club and claim the childcare cost back off UC ? Would work let you start earlier so you can leave earlier ?

Can't she just arrive at normal time. And instead of going into the playground, just join the breakfast club children instead.

I would give a couple of weeks to see if she settles properly and use the car to drive home again then walk. 2 of my 4 kids have SEN and I hate to say it, but my experience has been that there's an initial honeymoon period and then it reverts.

If it looks like it is going to be successful then I'd possibly use a combination of things, e.g. 1 breakfast club a week, car a couple of days and see if school can accommodate anywhere for you to wait.

@RosieLemonade

I cannot believe the people suggesting poor DS spend 4 hours a week hanging about in the playground. Or that someone suggested telling jokes to pass the time! We would have to walk 30 minutes out the way to get to a cafe (at the supermarket)! Can't imagine any of you would be saying the same thing if you had to wait about for that amount of time each week. In fact I've done safeguard reports a few times for children who arrive at school extremely early.

Safeguard reports? Times must really have changed. I used to stay with my auntie sometimes as a kid who is team lead of MASH services at our local council and thus dealing with childrens safeguarding on a daily basis. When she used to drop me off at school, she'd have to drop me off in the playground at 8.30 to ensure she got to work and was at her desk by 9. I assume many working parents have to do the same.

What constitutes "extremely early"?

I think the only solution is to take your dd to breakfast club for the last 20 minutes, maybe take a flask of hot chocolate and sit outside with ds for 20 minutes? I know it’s not ideal when it’s cold and/or raining but it will be better than hanging around for 45 minutes.

I’d sacrifice £5/day for the other breakfast club for the son if you have no options

What are the actual distances from home to school and then to work? If it's all walkable then it's hard to know why you and DS can't go back home or on to your work. If you can't afford a cafe/ other group every day, then what about doing that a couple of days per week, to break things up. Or see about extra hours at work; you might find you can earn more than the £5 by starting work early as they're both looked after much earlier. Even if you just break even, the schedule mighty work better for everyone.

@PheasantsNest

They are doing you a favour having your DD in early. You are wrong to expect them to take your DS too.

Exactly. Instead of complaining you should be extremely grateful for what they've already done for you. A lot of schools do not have this provision. Count yourself lucky. Your son is still going in at normal time, it's not like you're having to bring him later than normal etc. If you don't like the wait you don't need to send your daughter.

@Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower

I suppose what I'm a bit in the dark about is that suddenly my dd is being offered all this extra support and special help and no one has sat me down and said what it all means. It's like it's being hinted at but I want to know what they're alluding too. I'm a strong woman I can take it.

Is drop-off the only thing she struggles with? If so I don't think they're hinting she has additional needs, just they're aware she's struggling with being overwhelmed and can help atm

If there's other stuff you're worried about, you need to talk directly to the school

I think school is being unreasonable in this situation tbh. If the club was packed with kids then I could understand it, but it isn't. My daughter had a difficult time getting herself to high school due to anxiety. So much so, that we had education welfare on our backs. They offered her a seat on the school minibus and came to pick her up every morning. I asked if they'd take her sister too, and it wasn't a problem because they saw it as her sister supporting her to do something overwhelming. They wouldn't have just picked any child up though, so it wasn't setting any sort of precedent.

I don't see why he can't attend as support for her.

Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower

Why do you have to wait 45 minutes? If you walk to school how far away is it from your house?

I would take the place that is a benefit to DD.
I would then hang around with DS , either in the park, picking the odd thing up from a shop, cup of tea in cafe, he to go to a friend's for half an hour, sit in car or a combination of all the above. Many families have different arrangements for different siblings you just have to make it work. It is irritating at most and the school have found an excellent solution for which I would be grateful

I’m really shocked by the posters agreeing that the breakfast club should take a non-SEN child for the convenience of school runs. Ridiculous entitlement. I feel sorry for the school. They are not required to lay on extra staff and facilities for your convenience.

Where does everyone live that they have all these marvellous facilities so close to school?

There's no cafe or anything similar close enough to our school to make it realistic we could walk there, eat/drink something and get back to the school in 45 minutes, not that I could afford that every day anyway. There is a library fairly near, but even before they reduced their opening hours they opened at 9.30.

School gates are locked until just before it's time to go in, so no running around the playground. If your child is attending the breakfast club they arrive on time, no turning up for the last 15 minutes because the gates would be locked.

And I couldn't afford an extra £100 a month for breakfast club. Yes, £5 a day might be cheap, but not if you don't have it. As for driving, if you get caught in rush hour traffic, it may not be a case of quickly nipping there and back again, and waiting in the car with her DS then means, I assume, driving to work with the possible cost implications of that or whatever reason OP doesn't drive to work.

Not saying OP has all these problems, just that if I were in her situation, I can see I'd struggle with it as well.

I don't see why he can't attend as support for her.

If you read the whole thread you'd see no one including the OP knows if he is actually unable to attend or what support they will put in place if her daughter attending the breakfast club makes mornings more difficult.

As with so many threads on MN the whole issue could have been resolved with actually having a conversation.

School aren't helping with morning routine

This title is a criticism. It's a bit disingenuous to say you arent criticising the school. But leaving that aside...

no one has sat me down and said what it all means. It's like it's being hinted at but I want to know what they're alluding too. I'm a strong woman I can take it.

It could just mean your DD is having trouble getting to school atm. It could mean they are being bullied and the preschool club is just a sticking plaster. It could mean there is underlying undiagnosed SEN and further intervention is needed further down the line.

But you are probably the best person to assess this than anyone. Is this the only problem your DD is having? What does she say about the situation?

Generally if a child has a problem you try a few simple solutions before you jump to SN, most kids may need a bit of extra TLC at times for all sorts of reasons. If that solves the problem or the problem fades away all good. When the package of necessary support becomes so extensive an ongoing that it needs extra funding that's generally the stage you start looking at diagnosis and SN.

If there are wider issues you want to talk about, you may be better starting a new thread for a more specific sensitive response

Lots of positive things here. DD loves it. That's a great start. This could really make a difference. But of course it can't be at the cost of everything else. Your DS is reception age, you have a full days work ahead of you. So the morning routine has to be as easy as possible. I would just tell the school your problem and see what they say. In all probability your DD can go in 15 mins ahead of DS.

God don't we all struggle with and have a moan about it once in a while!? It is not entitled, or rude. So much angriness this morning!

Why are you making it their problem? They're helping your dd who needs it