School aren't helping with morning routine

[Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower]

My dd has always been anxious. Since starting back at school she has had serious meltdowns every morning, crying for up to forty minutes, shaking walking to school. At her age this behaviour is quite unusual, especially as she was better (1-2 meltdowns at drop off per week) in previous years. I feel it's sensory, as she is perfectly happy walking to school and excited to see friends but seizes up and bolts for the gate as soon as she gets in the playground. It's quite different from last year (covid) as all the kids are in the playground together as well as all the parents, dogs, teachers etc and she just can't tolerate the noise, chaos of it.
School have offered a breakfast club so she can avoid this. There's not a breakfast club currently apart from for kids with additional needs and low income families, so there's about six kids who attend in the whole school. My dd went yesterday and loved it, the school said she was calm and ready to join the class at lesson time. However, they can not accommodate my ds who is also at school. So if my dd goes I then have a 45 minute wait with him, not enough time to go home, no park local and it's cold and wet. I feel this is really unfair and might impact on his feelings about school, as he has to leave home earlier and will have a long wait before starting.
Can I push this and should I as he does not fit the criteria?

Well she’s doesn’t have to be there for 45 minutes does she? Probably 20 is enough.

You’re really entitled thinking that it your son should get a place just for your convenience. Your soon be moaning if there were no spaces left because of siblings!

So you have options - you’d just rather have the school pay for them. Your DS doesn’t need a free place and it would be really low to pressure the school into taking him. Pay for him or work out another arrangement for your daughter.

Breakfast club would normally be from 8.15 onwards rather than you having to go for the whole time. You can take DD there 10 mins early and let DS play in the playground for that time.

I am going to be honest and agree I wouldn't want to stand outside for 45mins or walk around the streets in the rain/winter weather. I would be asking the school if I could wait with DS in the reception area and use it as a time to sit and read or do some spelling practice with DS.

You can contact your local authority SEN department and make a parental request for statutory assessment.

I mean later obviously!

I don't think she has to go to breakfast club from the time they open - my DC used to go to breakfast club for 10-15 minutes lots of days. I couldn't just abandon them 15 minutes before school, but I didn't need to be at work any earlier. I think it's normal for parents to drop off at whatever time at breakfast club.

And yes, ask for a referral for your DDs anxiety through your GP now. Say she has anxiety at both home at school (if you say it's just school they GP will probably say school needs to deal with it and refer). Also push with school and don't give up. I speak as someone who was fobbed off for years with a DS who had similar issues going in to school.

45 minutes (or 30 minutes plus 15 minutes playing with friends before the bell goes) is a good time to do any reading/times tables that your DS will be asked to do. Does the school library open early? Or is there a foyer you could ask to sit in on wet days?

The option for DD is there if you live close enough do it twice or take DS on a walk.
If you're back to the house in 5 mins set up a breakfast club for DS at home.
I do two school runs on foot within 40 minutes for similar reasons, it is tough but it has to be done, both have asd.

The offering should be for the families of children with additional needs really.
@oblada & @TeenMinusTests in an ideal world yes but there’s often such limited funding in situations like this that that could make the difference of being able to offer support at all. If the numbers of children doubled or tripled due to siblings then that would mean at least one additional member of staff would need to be employed. Which would almost definitely not be within the budget/funding.

If it’s a case of being able to offer it for children with SEND vs no one at all then surely the better option is that it’s there?

Sorry if this has been suggested already.....when I had similar problems with multiple drop offs I asked to sit in reception with child 2 and 3....we would read. There was one chair there. I wasn't I'm the school so no safeguarding concerns for the school - and we were out of the cold/wind/rain.

I'm sure you will be able to drop her just 15/20 minutes early so it's not so bad for you. This is a great solution for kids who can struggle with the morning business. But definitely do try to push for more support/inclusion on the SEN register.

I couldnt cope standing/walking around for 45 minutes in the cold. I definitely would want to have my child do that every day.

I know with my kids old schools breakfast club, it opened at a certain time but you didn't need to go for it opening. It was accessible from opening until 10 minutes before school time. Seeing if that is an option sounds like your best bet. Just give your kids breakfast at home as normal, and just use breakfast club as a calmer entrance. Leaving you and ds with a 10-15 minute wait, which is much more doable.

Have to laugh at all the "surely there's a café nearby" and "can't you just go to a Costa drive through?" suggestions.

I agree. No such thing in our village.
IMO the best compromise is to take the DD in 15 minutes early.

I've been in this exact situation and I felt like school should have taken DS too but actually I was wrong. If they took my DS then they'd have to open it up to all siblings and pretty soon it wouldn't have been the calm environment that it was for DD.

Some solutions that we tried were waiting in the car. Walking about locally, we were lucky that there was a park just round the corner. Lots of his friends also arrived after five or ten mins so he would go off and play with those.

My DS didn't have SEN and was ok at school. DD was really struggling (ultimately she struggled so much that I took her out of school-but school did try their best). Breakfast club really helped her and so I just had to deal with occupying my DS for a bit.

Eh?just say the breakfast club won’t work for your family and thank them for their offer then. What’s the issue??
Could you ask if your daughter be allowed in school on arrival rather then loitering and entreating with everyone else? This is something my sons school offer. Yes they arrive with everyone else but they go straight through into their classroom rather than waiting for the crowds to enter.

No one in their right mind would spend 45 mins of their morning waiting outside in winter with a 4 year old. Especially before full day at work. Especially if they didn't have to.

All the bloody Pollyannas on this thread who suggest turning it into a scene from the Sound of Music are not living in the real world.

People who compare it to waiting around at a swimming lesson don't take their kids swimming outside in winter, every single day before a full day at work.

OP if it doesn't work for your family, you can ask the school for another solution.

Sounds like you have a few options and the school is helping - just none of the options are ideal.
I would either:
Pay for your DS to go to breakfast club too (£5 for two children isn't bad!)
OR
Drive to school and do reading etc with DS in the car
OR
Only send your DD in 15/20 minutes early so you're not waiting so long

@Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower you may find breakfast club that’s free don’t take reception anyway, ours don’t because of ratios, it would mean 1 member of staff for 8 children and we can’t afford that.

I don't think YABU. It's unreasonable to expect one DC to stand outside for 45 minutes every day including in the rain and cold.

But.... you could turn this to your DS's advantage. Most kids that age don't get enough exercise. Take DD 15 minutes late so it's only half an hour, then take a ball and have a kick around outside with him or take him for a walk or run races with him. An extra 2.5 hours of physical activity a week with your full attention on him will probably be very good for him.

This is what upsets me about some situations. The school have provided a solution. But because it doesn't make your life easier it's not acceptable. Contrary to what other posters might think it's not the school's responsibility to provide free care for everyone to make out life easier - and yes it is very difficult sometimes. Nothing seems to ever be good enough and it's a real sign of the times.

@GreatestHits

No one in their right mind would spend 45 mins of their morning waiting outside in winter with a 4 year old. Especially before full day at work. Especially if they didn't have to.

All the bloody Pollyannas on this thread who suggest turning it into a scene from the Sound of Music are not living in the real world.

People who compare it to waiting around at a swimming lesson don't take their kids swimming outside in winter, every single day before a full day at work.

OP if it doesn't work for your family, you can ask the school for another solution.

Absolutely this.

OP as some posters have suggested, I'd speak to them about your DD going into breakfast club for the last 10/15 minutes and if that's not an option then going into school 10/15 minutes later. I found ear muffs were enough for my DD with sensory issues, perhaps something along those lines if you exhaust other options.

Apologies if someone already mentioned this, but could you ask the school if they have a room available where you could go and sit with your DS and read?

I love the posters suggesting a café every day or just standing in the cold and rain for 45 mins (what fun).

Go back to the school OP and suggest a middle ground. Maybe you can help at the breakfast club and bring DS, maybe she can go for half the time. You’re unlikely to be the first parent with this problem and won’t be the last. Or maybe your work will let you flex your hours to come in early?

There’s a middle way, and no you’re not being cheeky and entitled, you’re just trying to find something that works for your family.

You said you don't want to drive - not that you can't, is that the case?

My DD has various catch up interventions this term - 3 mornings a week she needs to be there at 8am, my son has no interventions and doesn't start until 8:50. So for those three mornings we bring the car and me, DS & the toddler sit in the car for 50 mins and have car breakfast/do his reading/play on their tablets. It's not ideal but it works.

@MotherOfCrocodiles

Crikey, I cat believe how many people think it will be ok for you to wander the streets with a 4 year old for 45min every morning in winter!

I don't know what the solution is, but that is definitely not ok

Is the DS 4?

Oh op as many have said just because she has been offered a breakfast club slot does not mean she must be there for a full 45 mins.

The trigger is the crowded noisy playground so you ask if she can just go in 10mins early, stay in breakfast club until the bell goes while you are then waiting in the playground with your ds. Alternatively do the trip twice and you've said you are walking distance.