School aren't helping with morning routine

[Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower]

My dd has always been anxious. Since starting back at school she has had serious meltdowns every morning, crying for up to forty minutes, shaking walking to school. At her age this behaviour is quite unusual, especially as she was better (1-2 meltdowns at drop off per week) in previous years. I feel it's sensory, as she is perfectly happy walking to school and excited to see friends but seizes up and bolts for the gate as soon as she gets in the playground. It's quite different from last year (covid) as all the kids are in the playground together as well as all the parents, dogs, teachers etc and she just can't tolerate the noise, chaos of it.
School have offered a breakfast club so she can avoid this. There's not a breakfast club currently apart from for kids with additional needs and low income families, so there's about six kids who attend in the whole school. My dd went yesterday and loved it, the school said she was calm and ready to join the class at lesson time. However, they can not accommodate my ds who is also at school. So if my dd goes I then have a 45 minute wait with him, not enough time to go home, no park local and it's cold and wet. I feel this is really unfair and might impact on his feelings about school, as he has to leave home earlier and will have a long wait before starting.
Can I push this and should I as he does not fit the criteria?

Perhaps ask if you can sit in the school library and do some reading /homework with ds. Or ask if you can be of any help in school I used to tidy the library once a week because I worked full time I would do it before school.
Re referral I'd be chasing up and asking for any help while you wait for assessment they can give.

@Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower

Sorry I should add that it is absolutely not my motive to bully school into offering ds a place. I just hoped that they would offer a solution such as that she would get to go in through a quieter entrance or something. Now they've told her about breakfast club I feel awful by saying I can't make it work. The school have been amazing but I'm very aware that my son is also a pupil there and I'm supposed to be setting him up for a full day of learning. I'm not sure if his teacher would feel I was doing that if he has had to wait in the rain for 45 minutes prior to school starting. I can't afford a cafe trip every day and no other parent lives locally. There is a paying breakfast club at the end of our road but it's £5 a day and I can't justify that, plus he would have less time at home in the mornings. I just don't want to ruin school for him as he quite likes it so far (he's in reception).

Oh brilliant, as if you couldn't get any more entitled OP. So there is another solution but you don't want to pay for it, you expect the school to provide it for free for both of your children 🤦‍♀️

The school are giving your child a helpful and appropriate provision. Considering your daughter not having a diagnosis (or ehcp?) they are going above their requirements already. To those saying the siblings could be put in another area with another member of staff.... WHO?

School can't let your son in unless they also let all the other kids siblings in. Then parents with no SEN kids will start to ask why their kids can't go too as it would help them out and it isn't fair. If they do that they will at least double the size of the provision and need extra staff which I guess they don't have or they would already be offering a paid for breakfast club.
You can ask if DS can go but if they refuse they are not unreasonable. You should offer to pay for him.

Possible solutions
Take a thermos and some breakfast treats so you and DS can have those while you wait
Ask another school mum in DS class if he can walk to school with them l(big ask and a bit mean on him but maybe OK if temporary)
Ask the school for a different solution for DD eg TA to collect her in the playground and stay with her or to be allowed to go straight into class after the other kids.

Also dogs in the playground?? I would have thought they were banned at most schools. They certainly are at ours.

@Lazypuppy

There must be a cafe or something you can go in and have breakfast with your son?

not everyone lives in towns!

OP, the school.has offered a solution. I would take it and try to find another solution for your son. Could you arrange for another parent to have him for the 45 minutes each morning? If he's over 8 then you can pay a friend without them needing to be a childminder.

@TeenMinusTests

I think school is being unreasonable. If all the pupils have siblings then they could open up a separate room for the siblings, even if all they do is sit and read. Not reasonable to ask them to hang around in cold/rain for 45mins.

Have you tried arriving later, so just when the bell rings to go in, or 5 mins after that if permitted?

But it's not just opening up an extra room for children to sit and read is it? It's opening up an extra room and then either paying a staff member to supervise or organising a rota of DBS checked volunteers . And what if the children included are the sort that need to run around and burn off energy before school starts? Not every child would be inclined to sit at a table with a book for three quarters of an hour every morning.

Does your DD like the idea of breakfast club? Maybe you could offer it one day a week and you send your DS to the other club (assume that is the reason the school only runs this limited breakfast club). Then try and find other solutions for the other days. Ear defenders seem like a good call, or could she listen to music on ear phones?

put a referral in for your DD via the GP, that level of anxiety around school isn't normal. It's difficult to get school to do much if she's generally seeming to cope fine in school, and if the breakfast club is helping with the anxiety that's good, but I'd want to investigate the anxiety further via CAMHS in case you see a different manifestation.

OP I don't think you're being unreasonable to ask. I suspect a lot of people on this thread have no idea have stressful it is on the whole family when a child has additional needs. Your DS should not be put at a disadvantage because of his sister's needs, especially when he is so little.

There is a paying breakfast club at the end of our road but it's £5 a day and I can't justify that, plus he would have less time at home in the mornings

But that is your best - and only - option. Drop your son at the breakfast club. Take your daughter to school for her breakfast club. £5 for both children for the day. Yes you're perhaps paying for something that you don't want to have to pay for. But it solves your problems at one fell swoop.

And it wouldn't give your son "less time at home" as the other option is hanging around for 45 minutes in the playground.

@skahan but I haven't asked about a breakfast club, they have suggested it. I don't need a breakfast club as I work until 6 to make up my hours. I have 'cut my cloth accordingly' to use a MN expression, and no I can't stump up an extra £100 per month, few can!

Op many others have suggested arriving at breakfast club 10-15 minutes before the start of the school day. Have you asked school if this is possible? If not that seems like a great place to start as it allows your DD a calmer start to the school day, and reduces the time your DS is waiting outside.

I would ask school if you can sit in their reception with DS for those 45 mins each morning, esp since we're going into Winter and it's likely to become cold and rainy. DS could read a book with you or something similar.

Why does she need to go 45 mins early, why not just 10 mins?

I just hoped that they would offer a solution such as that she would get to go in through a quieter entrance or something

Ask for this then...I think you need to think of some solutions but be reasonable.

Essentially you are asking for free breakfast club for both children when one doesn't need it. I really think parents have to take more responsibility and stop expecting schools to manage everything.
A reception aged child would need considerable care...guarantee you would complain if they didn't take sufficient attention.

Two of my dds have autism. I remember when my eldest who has no Sen was a toddler carrying a buggy up a set of stairs for her sister to strap her into whilst pregnant so her sister could attend swimming lessons, I’ve sat in cars with her siblings whilst she does clubs or attended school. Unfortunately to accommodate one means the other is inconvenienced. Could you take books, games, a tablet for your son? It sounds like your daughter really needs this.

@Whinge I will do. The school sort of put it as 'breakfast club at 8.15' but I will ask if she can go at 8.30.

Could you volunteer to do photocopying/tidying/helping at breakfast club/listening to readers before school? So at least you're somewhere warm?
DS could help too, or dick about on your phone?

Possible options:

Take DD into breakfast for the last 10 mins and wait with DS in playground - 10 mins should be fine for him

Ask if DD can go straight in through breakfast club entrance/office

Just because school has come up with this doesn’t mean it’s the only/ideal solution, I’m sure they’ll be happy to discuss it with you further.

Posters saying you’re being “entitled” for not wanting to keep DS waiting outside for 45 mins are ridiculous, ignore them.

If you don't want to / can't go to a cafe each day, save that for when it is really awful weather. On other days, maybe take a flask of hot chocolate (or whatever your son likes) and possibly breakfast (a small second snack if breakfasted first at home or a roll or breakfast bar if you DD is eating at breakfast club) and drink /eat together while you wait.

It could end up as a special time together.

Does the school have any covered shelter in their grounds? I would say how grateful you are for the solution for your daughter, then say that obviously it means you and DS will be waiting outside for 45 mins, so can you sit in the 'Y5 reading gazebo' or whatever, until others start arriving.

If it turnns out your DD does not need (either for her benefit or the benefit of the club eg. an activity they all do together, or keeping everyone calm by all being there throughout) then maybe cut her time to 20 mins or so as well. But ask about that - the club may be specifically structured over those 45 mins.

@Fadingout

Two of my dds have autism. I remember when my eldest who has no Sen was a toddler carrying a buggy up a set of stairs for her sister to strap her into whilst pregnant so her sister could attend swimming lessons, I’ve sat in cars with her siblings whilst she does clubs or attended school. Unfortunately to accommodate one means the other is inconvenienced. Could you take books, games, a tablet for your son? It sounds like your daughter really needs this.

I'm surprised to see you have not even asked yet and yet you're online being really rether rude about a school that is willing to help and support your daughter in such a big way.

Surely the first thing you'd do is talk to them and try and work something out rather than jumping to the conclusion they won't help?

What happens after school if you work until 6?

Crikey, I cat believe how many people think it will be ok for you to wander the streets with a 4 year old for 45min every morning in winter!

I don't know what the solution is, but that is definitely not ok

[quote Agelikeafinebottleofblacktower]@Whinge I will do. The school sort of put it as 'breakfast club at 8.15' but I will ask if she can go at 8.30.[/quote]
That's probably just the earliest time they allow children to arrive. It seems unfair that you're criticising the school and claiming they're not helping. When they're offering a free breakfast club, and could be more than happy for you to drop her off a little later.

YABVU

You can’t really see why 1) everyone should do stuff to make your life easier 2) why you should get your emotions in check about practical arrangements.

Do you think that children raised with 1&2 might struggle to do things they don’t want?

I think you are the problem here OP