Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Cultural appropriation...how bad is it?

495 replies

malificent7 · 02/10/2021 10:58

So Rhianna is under fire for braiding white model's hair. What if a black model wanted to straighten and bleach her hair?
I love african wax print fabric but don't want to be accused of cultural appropriation if i wear a bit of it. I also own sari fabric clothes.

Aibu to ask mn who may or may not be from different ethnic backgrounds would they consider Rhianna or my behaviour inappropriate and what constitutes real cultural appropriation?

This is not a racist thread as dd is mixed race.

OP posts:
DecadentlyDecisive · 02/10/2021 11:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Newrumpus · 02/10/2021 11:06

Wear and style yourself however you like.

OwlinaTree · 02/10/2021 11:08

I don't know with this, I think it's hard to quantify. What might be offensive to some people might not to others.

I was invited to a friend wedding, it was a traditional Sikh wedding, and we were encouraged to wear traditional Indian dress. I would hate to think someone was offended by that.

YourFinestPantaloons · 02/10/2021 11:09

So Rhianna is under fire for braiding white model's hair. What if a black model wanted to straighten and bleach her hair?

From what I understand (I am not a WOC but my DC are mixed race so I do try and keep abreast of things like cultural appropriation) - the oppressors (in this case, white people) should not appropriate the oppressed (in this case, POC) because it just perpetuates and increases the oppression issue. Whereas there will be no real harm when done the other way round. Also, blond hair is not a key part of a culture. most white women with blonde hair have that colour because they've dyed it

YourFinestPantaloons · 02/10/2021 11:11

I'm also very much in the "just fucking listen" camp. If POC en masse are telling us cultural appropriation is damaging, how about we listen to them? Would that be so hard?

TimeForTeaAndG · 02/10/2021 11:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. for repeating a deleted post.

Taoneusa · 02/10/2021 11:16

Black sisters straightening their hair and wearing wigs does much more to perpetuate the idea of White Beauty as Supreme than Rihanna sharing some braiding.

ComtesseDeSpair · 02/10/2021 11:16

The reason wearing “tribal” prints is seen as appropriation is that often the wearer is unaware of the deep cultural significance of the print or the meaning it has to the particular group with whom it originates. So you’re taking something with spiritual or social significance which is tied to the lives, beliefs, and values of real people - real people who are at best obscured and at worst oppressed by the culture that appropriates them - and just treating it as a cool funky pattern.

It’s not quite the same as being encouraged to wear the traditional dress of a particular country or group for a special occasion which celebrates and centres the people inviting you to wear it.

Holskey · 02/10/2021 11:18

I thought cultural appropriation is about people from one group using symbols and traditions from a group they've traditionally (and maybe still) oppressed for the purpose of making money/gaining fame etc., especially if people from the oppressed group have been subject to ridicule/discrimination based on these symbols and traditions.

If that's what it is then I'm not sure Rihanna (the money maker and person responsible here) is appropriating culture. But maybe I'm wrong??

BrimfulOfBaba · 02/10/2021 11:23

Cultural appropriation is people using elements from a culture without acknowledging or appreciating where they got it from. See white women positing themselves as yoga experts without acknowledging the origins and gravity of the practice. The white women tends to be lauded and receive monetary gain, even if she might butcher the concept, while Indian practitioners do not get this kudos. This is just an example.

And your thread will attract racists (@DecadentlyDecisive's reply is dodgy to say the least) regardless of your daughter's heritage, OP.

Loveshelly · 02/10/2021 11:26

Is it the same as an English person wearing clan tartan. Because i have done that and not thought twice about it

Darkchocolateandcoffee · 02/10/2021 11:26

I don't get it at all.

twelly · 02/10/2021 11:26

If someone were to use religious symbol or another culture in a mocking way that in my view would be inappropriate. I think the term cultural appropriation is overused and most of the cases where it is cited are in my view acceptable.

BrimfulOfBaba · 02/10/2021 11:26

Women of colour are consistently made to feel "less" than white women - by the media, by our general culture and environment. And yet when white women adopt characteristics and style from other cultures (without the due acknowledgement) they are seen as the originators of those styles and seen as attractive. Its like our cultures are attractive but only if whitewashed. That's why it's a problem.

If you can genuinely appreciate and pay tribute to another culture, great. Get feedback from friends within the communities you want to appreciate. Look up cultural appreciation vs cultural appropriation.

yomommasmomma · 02/10/2021 11:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ for repeating a deleted post.

vivainsomnia · 02/10/2021 11:31

Get feedback from friends within the communities you want to appreciate
I have and the feedback has been nothing like what I'm reading here!

Strawberrryfields · 02/10/2021 11:31

I can see why it may seem relevant to your post BUT someone’s child being mixed race doesn’t exclude them from being racist. I’m absolutely not suggesting that you are OP but that’s sadly not the case for everyone. To me, its along the same lines as “some of my best friends are black” comments which are not helpful.

ThanksIGotItInMorrisons · 02/10/2021 11:32

I think, unless you’re trying to prove a point / take the piss/be offensive/ be outrageously racist in your choice of ‘cultural appropriation’ then you should be able to Adopt whatever style you want. Why have people always got to have an issue with other people who are going about their day , appreciating the multi cultural differences in our society. It seems really outrageous to think that someone would be targeted because they braided their hair or wore certain clothing or whatever. So bored and fed up with wo/man kind. Our laws are skewed, our morals are out of sync and all we want to do is cancel/ sue/ film and shame. This is not what I wanted for my kids.

Watchingyou2sleezes · 02/10/2021 11:37

I know a former World champion kick boxer. He is black. His main fighting style came from Taekwondo - should he now start apologising to Koreans for having the nerve to appropriate their culture?

It is all a load of toss stirred up by the permanently aggrieved.

pontiouspilates · 02/10/2021 11:39

@YourFinestPantaloons

I'm also very much in the "just fucking listen" camp. If POC en masse are telling us cultural appropriation is damaging, how about we listen to them? Would that be so hard?
This with bells on!
DillonPanthersTexas · 02/10/2021 11:41

ComtesseDeSpair

Interesting. Before I met her my wife spent time working in Senegal. She immersed herself in the culture, could speak passable Wolof and came to have a deep understanding of the traditions and culture of the Wolof people. We still visit the country as she has friends there. She started to include certain fabric prints as part of her wardrobe when living there. Back in the UK she still occasionally sports 'funky' prints that were gifted to her by her Senegalese friends. She is white Irish. She has been criticized by some (white people) in the past for cultural appropriation despite I imagine her understanding of the significance of what she is wearing far surpassing that of the supposedly offended person. Either way she is not going to stop wearing such items anytime soon, and why should she?

MarshmallowSwede · 02/10/2021 11:41

I think their issue is that whenever black women do something with their hair it is called ugly or seen as “less than”, but once white women start doing it then it’s acceptable. That’s their issue.

I have some very close friends who are black American women that I met when I studied abroad in the states, and according to them their issue is mainly with things that they do being called “ghetto” or seen as trashy but as soon as white women appropriate it, then it’s somehow acceptable.

You have to decide for yourself if you want to wear it and risk being called out for cultural appropriation.

I wouldn’t wear the dress of another culture personally, mainly because I think when white people wear distinctly cultural dress from POC it looks ridiculous and like you’re trying a bit too hard to appear “cool”.

Also- having mixed race children does not mean that you can’t be racist or engage in questionable behaviour. Want to point that out because people for some reason think that having sex with people of colour and having children with one automatically gives them a pass to do certain things. No it doesn’t. If anything, you should be especially careful so as not to engage in these behaviors considering you’re raising a person of colour.

I’m not saying you’re racist OP. Only that people often say this as a disclaimer and as a pass.

I think if you want to braid your hair then fine and wear what you want. But be prepared that there are going to be people who do find it offensive.

It seems to be more of an issue in America as they have an especially brutal history with race. So I think it’s also important to keep that in mind too. Is this from the perspective of black American women? Then they have a point.. as they had laws about how they could wear their hair and being ridiculed about their hair etc.

Not saying it doenst happen in Europe, but black Americans have had in my opinion a much more brutal and insidiously racist nation to deal with than European racist.

Europeans are definitely racist… but we never had Jim Crow, the KKK, or laws telling black women that they either could not show their hair (tignon laws) or how they could wear their hair.

But it’s best that if we look at this from the perspective of black women to understand that it’s about that whenever they wear something it’s deemed bad.. until white women do it.

So I assume this is what it’s about. In general, when a WOC tells me something is offensive I tend to believe them. For various reasons I wouldn’t know all the nuance of why cultural appropriation bothers them, but I would assume enough bad history is behind it to just not do the offensive behaviour.

Seems much easier to me at least.

BrimfulOfBaba · 02/10/2021 11:42

@vivainsomnia Well isn't it good to seek a diversity of opinion? Not all black/indian/native American people etc have the same opinions as each other. Make diverse connections, read up about things, and use sound judgement.

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 02/10/2021 11:45

@YourFinestPantaloons

I'm also very much in the "just fucking listen" camp. If POC en masse are telling us cultural appropriation is damaging, how about we listen to them? Would that be so hard?
Nailed it.
Noeuf · 02/10/2021 11:45

My understanding is that if you are using something that has caused hurt or holds cultural/spiritual/religious significance as fashion it’s not on. So hair styles for example - white women can choose to have braids whenever but black women have used them to control natural hair which has been traditionally treated as undesirable. It makes sense to me not to tread where I’m not sure of the ground.