Cultural appropriation...how bad is it?

[malificent7]

So Rhianna is under fire for braiding white model's hair. What if a black model wanted to straighten and bleach her hair?
I love african wax print fabric but don't want to be accused of cultural appropriation if i wear a bit of it. I also own sari fabric clothes.

Aibu to ask mn who may or may not be from different ethnic backgrounds would they consider Rhianna or my behaviour inappropriate and what constitutes real cultural appropriation?

This is not a racist thread as dd is mixed race.

the oppressors (in this case, white people) should not appropriate the oppressed (in this case, POC) because it just perpetuates and increases the oppression issue.

Yes, I think that's sums up the white supremisist position quite well, although I think they call it cultural contamination, not appropriation.

Fewer people than you think care about cultural appropriation and those who feel that strongly, would find another way to make money in the tourism industry

Exactly.

@GoOnDOANASEyeroll

Well not also POC agree. My family is half from Nigeria and people over there are more than flattered if you embrace our culture with clothes, food etc.

It's not a black and white issue, if you'll excuse the pun

I personally find it depends on the situation but generally partaking in others culture is fine, it's not a threat to my identity.

Let me repeat something similar to what I wrote on another thread. I cringe everytime I see someone else mention Nigerians in these discussions only because it's obvious they'd be going against the grain and I can only imagine what some people do while reading it. Perhaps an eyeroll or a groan or something.

But like I wrote somewhere else, I'm afraid your experience doesn't count anymore, according to those people. Haven't you heard? Apparently a lot of Nigerians are self-haters who have a lot of healing to do because they tend to have different opinions from the general party line.

The people who say this also say they believe all black people don't think the same, yet will be the ones to penalize/cancel/reprimand those who think differently.

So I'm afraid your post doesn't help your case but adds fuel to that fire. It's likely considered irrelevant, according to those people.

(In case it isn't clear, I'm not one of those people. I'm only relaying a message, sarcastically).

Anyone who disagrees is self hating? Yeah, I don't think so. Nigerians are very proud, in terms of wearing natural hair, traditional clothes, eating Nigerian food, music, everything.

I'd like to hear why you think we're self hating? Like I actually curious on what basis you think that's true other than we're not as uptight about gate keeping our culture

Also, I don't think asian people, broadly, are concerned about cultural appropriation. Our Asian family friends growing up we're happy to share recipes etc. Clothing. They love to see you embrace their culture.

@Loveshelly

Is it the same as an English person wearing clan tartan. Because i have done that and not thought twice about it

Clan tartan had no historical significance beyond fashion from what I understand. It was a made up thing

As someone else said people use your brains understand the wider picture of choices being made. And listen!

At work during Indian celebrations it’s lovely to see it embraced and all invited to wear traditional dress and my friends loved bringing sari for my daughter to wear to an event - something initially I was uncomfortable with as I didn’t want to offend anyone but they loved that she wanted to be part of it. We had a conversation open dialogue.

My Dad is Scottish and recently remarried an English lady - the Scottish family/friends wore kilts. My Dads new fil wanted to match the wedding party but was gently explained that as he wasn’t Scottish he wouldn’t be ‘expected’ to wear a kilt, he was a little put out but eventually understood . My husband and BIL just wore suits (both English) it made sense for to them & didn’t even question it.

Anyone who disagrees is self hating? Yeah, I don't think so. Nigerians are very proud, in terms of wearing natural hair, traditional clothes, eating Nigerian food, music, everything.

I'd like to hear why you think we're self hating? Like I actually curious on what basis you think that's true other than we're not as uptight about gate keeping our culture

You misunderstood me. I completely agree with your posts.

I was being sarcastic while posting what some people think and have said - both on mn and probably other places.

I don't think that way. In fact I think it's ironic and stupid of people to think that way, although I find it both hilarious and sad that they do.

My Dad is Scottish and recently remarried an English lady - the Scottish family/friends wore kilts. My Dads new fil wanted to match the wedding party but was gently explained that as he wasn’t Scottish he wouldn’t be ‘expected’ to wear a kilt, he was a little put out but eventually understood . My husband and BIL just wore suits (both English) it made sense for to them & didn’t even question it.

WTF? Where I live you can go along the town and buy a crappy tartan hat with an attached orange wig. Now that would be rude and insulting to wear to a Scottish wedding. Wearing a kilt, on the other hand, is perfectly fine and respectful. I can't believe how horrible and controlling people were to tell the FIL he wasn't allowed to do that.

@bushhbb

Also, I don't think asian people, broadly, are concerned about cultural appropriation. Our Asian family friends growing up we're happy to share recipes etc. Clothing. They love to see you embrace their culture.

Which nationality, ethnicity or culture?

Most of the world are Asian and they aren't none homogeneous group.

one rather

Here they are...

" are obliged to sell a part of their heritage, their history, a fibre of their identity, for a few euros apiece? "

Gotta love a bit of Mumsnet Melodrama!

Which nationality, ethnicity or culture? Most of the world are Asian and they aren't none homogeneous group.

In the UK, 'Asian' usually means South Asian.

@FreeBritnee clan tartan was not a made up thing, a lot of the modern naned tartan patterns were made up by tartan Mills and the modern kilt was designed as military uniform but kilts and tartan existed then were banned for decades after 1745 by an act of Parliament, if you were caught wearing them you were arrested and jailed and or deported to the Americas as forced labour. I actually think its quite tolerant of Scots to not mind English people wearing the kilt.

Quite sure they didn't need to ask that question but silently groaning was no longer enough.

@beastlyslumber they had a lovely waistcoat made for him in the same tartan - he was more than happy with that. It was a wonderful day in Aberdeen with us all together no one felt controlled!
I can’t understand the why’s I’ve lived in England pretty much all my life, but I know when my Dad first moved down he struggled to get work with his accent and he had experienced a number of issues back in the 70’s due to him being Scottish.

And conditions were so bad in the military jails and plantations that people actually died because they were caught with clan tartan in their possession.

I'm a Scot and have been to many English weddings where kilts were worn by the English. It's not a problem to any Scot I know. Can't imagine telling a guest not to wear the tartan. Join us 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

To me it when a designer or scientist takes a design or knowledge from a culture claiming it as theirs without giving anything back

Strange how a few years ago no one in an African country seemed to mind if a white person dressed in their traditional clothes. In fact it got smiles and compliments. I hate the way things have changed to people making problems where there weren’t any and looking to be offended by everything.

@DecadentlyDecisive

" are obliged to sell a part of their heritage, their history, a fibre of their identity, for a few euros apiece? "

Gotta love a bit of Mumsnet Melodrama!

There should be a prize. That one was worth of Titania McGrath!

kilts and tartan existed then were banned for decades after 1745 by an act of Parliament, if you were caught wearing them you were arrested and jailed and or deported to the Americas as forced labour.

And conditions were so bad in the military jails and plantations that people actually died because they were caught with clan tartan in their possession.

I think that should be brought back for people who wear pants so low the crotch is round their knees and their designer underwear is showing.

If we are going to be serious about this, then it's not just "black" culture, or "Indian" culture. Taking "African" culture, Africa is a continent composed of many countries, whose borders wee in some cases imposed by colonial powers, but as they have had indepence the borders are obviously accepted. Likewise there are many tribes, each of whom have their own culture. So if you are saying. White British woman wearing a Zulu motif is CA, then an Ashanti woman wearing it is CA too.

Quite frankly as long as mocking is not intended and if done commercially, the roots are acknowledged then common sense says just do it.

Braiding originated in Austria & was apparently first recorded in Europe along with the french plait 🤷🏻‍♀️ so I don't get why anyone would be offended by it ( yes I'm a person of colour )

I'm Scottish - should non-Scottish people be allowed to wear tartan or is that cultural appropriation?