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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Cultural appropriation...how bad is it?

495 replies

malificent7 · 02/10/2021 10:58

So Rhianna is under fire for braiding white model's hair. What if a black model wanted to straighten and bleach her hair?
I love african wax print fabric but don't want to be accused of cultural appropriation if i wear a bit of it. I also own sari fabric clothes.

Aibu to ask mn who may or may not be from different ethnic backgrounds would they consider Rhianna or my behaviour inappropriate and what constitutes real cultural appropriation?

This is not a racist thread as dd is mixed race.

OP posts:
MissyB1 · 02/10/2021 16:08

And this is why I have stern words with ds for wearing a South African rugby jersey, it’s outrageous! He should clearly be wearing an Irish Jersey like any sane Rugby fan 😜

wombatspoopcubes · 02/10/2021 16:18

So basically as a white woman I should now very clearly say that I won't wear certain things because they are worn by women of colour. And this sounds less racist than wearing braids. Ok then.

TableFlowerss · 02/10/2021 16:19

@ThanksIGotItInMorrisons

I think, unless you’re trying to prove a point / take the piss/be offensive/ be outrageously racist in your choice of ‘cultural appropriation’ then you should be able to Adopt whatever style you want. Why have people always got to have an issue with other people who are going about their day , appreciating the multi cultural differences in our society. It seems really outrageous to think that someone would be targeted because they braided their hair or wore certain clothing or whatever. So bored and fed up with wo/man kind. Our laws are skewed, our morals are out of sync and all we want to do is cancel/ sue/ film and shame. This is not what I wanted for my kids.
Couldn’t agree more!
TableFlowerss · 02/10/2021 16:20

@wombatspoopcubes

So basically as a white woman I should now very clearly say that I won't wear certain things because they are worn by women of colour. And this sounds less racist than wearing braids. Ok then.
I think you’ve summed it up perfectly.
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 02/10/2021 16:22

@Od130990

Braiding originated in Austria & was apparently first recorded in Europe along with the french plait 🤷🏻‍♀️ so I don't get why anyone would be offended by it ( yes I'm a person of colour )
I don’t think we can say it originated in Austria. The earliest surviving evidence is from there but that’s not the same thing as it might have been in loads of other places earlier but no evidence happened to survive.
TheBlackDarner · 02/10/2021 16:24

@Od130990

Braiding originated in Austria & was apparently first recorded in Europe along with the french plait 🤷🏻‍♀️ so I don't get why anyone would be offended by it ( yes I'm a person of colour )
There's always "a person of colour" along to defend the likes of...erm... Austria. Your braiding claim is tosh. You'll be claiming that they invented yodelling next. Meh!
PeriChristmas · 02/10/2021 16:25

@YourFinestPantaloons

I'm also very much in the "just fucking listen" camp. If POC en masse are telling us cultural appropriation is damaging, how about we listen to them? Would that be so hard?
Although not all POC think exactly the same thoughts.
TheBlackDarner · 02/10/2021 16:26

@MissyB1

And this is why I have stern words with ds for wearing a South African rugby jersey, it’s outrageous! He should clearly be wearing an Irish Jersey like any sane Rugby fan 😜
Too right! Grin
Ozanj · 02/10/2021 16:27

I still remember when there was a fashion for Indian tikkas and jewellry (including anklets) when I was around 10. It was only considered cool when white or black girls wore it. If an Indian girl did it the same white people whose daughters wore the trends would call her out as not English enough.

That’s the type of cultural appropriation that is wrong.

PeriChristmas · 02/10/2021 16:28

@MarshmallowSwede

I think their issue is that whenever black women do something with their hair it is called ugly or seen as “less than”, but once white women start doing it then it’s acceptable. That’s their issue.

I have some very close friends who are black American women that I met when I studied abroad in the states, and according to them their issue is mainly with things that they do being called “ghetto” or seen as trashy but as soon as white women appropriate it, then it’s somehow acceptable.

You have to decide for yourself if you want to wear it and risk being called out for cultural appropriation.

I wouldn’t wear the dress of another culture personally, mainly because I think when white people wear distinctly cultural dress from POC it looks ridiculous and like you’re trying a bit too hard to appear “cool”.

Also- having mixed race children does not mean that you can’t be racist or engage in questionable behaviour. Want to point that out because people for some reason think that having sex with people of colour and having children with one automatically gives them a pass to do certain things. No it doesn’t. If anything, you should be especially careful so as not to engage in these behaviors considering you’re raising a person of colour.

I’m not saying you’re racist OP. Only that people often say this as a disclaimer and as a pass.

I think if you want to braid your hair then fine and wear what you want. But be prepared that there are going to be people who do find it offensive.

It seems to be more of an issue in America as they have an especially brutal history with race. So I think it’s also important to keep that in mind too. Is this from the perspective of black American women? Then they have a point.. as they had laws about how they could wear their hair and being ridiculed about their hair etc.

Not saying it doenst happen in Europe, but black Americans have had in my opinion a much more brutal and insidiously racist nation to deal with than European racist.

Europeans are definitely racist… but we never had Jim Crow, the KKK, or laws telling black women that they either could not show their hair (tignon laws) or how they could wear their hair.

But it’s best that if we look at this from the perspective of black women to understand that it’s about that whenever they wear something it’s deemed bad.. until white women do it.

So I assume this is what it’s about. In general, when a WOC tells me something is offensive I tend to believe them. For various reasons I wouldn’t know all the nuance of why cultural appropriation bothers them, but I would assume enough bad history is behind it to just not do the offensive behaviour.

Seems much easier to me at least.

I think their issue is that whenever black women do something with their hair it is called ugly or seen as “less than”, but once white women start doing it then it’s acceptable. That’s their issue.

If someone is copying something then maybe that's not seeing it as ugly. Or less than.

Also it's the issue of some people not all of "them".

UsedUpUsername · 02/10/2021 16:28

I find that second- and third-generation people of foreign descent get much more irritated about this than people actually from the culture in question.

I think if you buy heritage pieces from actual craftsman and tailors, it’s not a problem and actually quite supportive of traditional industries and old ways of life. Especially if you can integrate these pieces in a way that seems not ‘costume-y’ for lack of a better word.

It’s when you buy tat made in a factory in Shenzhen that it becomes kind of a missed opportunity. Money is not going to locals and not supporting local traditions. They need this money to sustain it to future generations or spread their cultural products further afield.

From some minority cultures, we’d like people to appropriate it. If not, it will disappear forever 😥

Wbeezer · 02/10/2021 16:35

@RaraRachael if you see my post earlier as Scottish people were actually oppressed for wearing tartan then non Scots wearing it now would class as cultural appropriation by current definitions but, personally i think it was a long time ago and would it really add to the sum of human happiness to ban anyone else wearing kilts? (mind you, some kilt outfits should be banned on the grounds of good taste!)

Od130990 · 02/10/2021 16:45

The idea that people should be allowed or not allowed to wear a hairstyle or garment, play a kind of music or produce a style of art based on their ancestry is misguided, to say the least. And the people who push the cultural appropriation narrative tend to lack actual knowledge about the origins of the items they claim belong exclusively to them.
If people only did what their ancestors did the human species wouldn't have progressed and advanced the way it has. We'd still be living in the stone age, or worse. And without cultural diffusion our lives would be much duller and of lower quality.
You can choose a hairstyle that works for you, that you find most attractive and practical and wear it. It's your hair; you can wear it however you choose.

UmbrellaDrops · 02/10/2021 16:49

As soon as you said, this is not a racist thread as dd is mixed race, it showed you will already miss any given point. Enjoying sex with any race of person and understanding why cultural appropriation is problematic, are two very different things.

Watch the film "bring it on" Kristen Dunst and Gabrielle Union. It teaches about cultural appropriation and the knock on effects.

SommerTen · 02/10/2021 16:51

So Germans & Austrians among other White Middle Europeans have always braided their hair; as have Black women whose origins are from African nations.

Women from all over the world have copied the White Middle Europeans' styles because as they are White styles they've been accepted by those in power in White majority nations, and until relatively recently it was White majority nations that ruled most of the World...

But the White majority nations have only very recently accepted the styles of braids worn by the Black African origin women.
These are therefore the styles of the oppressed minority.
That is why it's not acceptable for White women to copy the braid styles of Black women.

So for example you could put White models in Heidi plaits or a French plait but not cornrows.

That is my brief understanding of what cultural appropriation is.

applechips · 02/10/2021 17:14

Really dislike the idea that people should stay in their particular boxes.

DillonPanthersTexas · 02/10/2021 17:36

The grievance industry needs feeding now and again.

worriedatthemoment · 02/10/2021 17:39

@Timeforachangetoday12 i know many a scottish person and kilts have been worn by non scottish groomsmen etc and not been a problem
Not offensive to wear at all

worriedatthemoment · 02/10/2021 17:42

So much for the uk meant to be a multi cultural country
Can I ask how many people on here that are POC ( i hate that phrase ) that see this as a problem and how many are white that see the problem , the one POC who didn't agree as such was pretty much shouted down
There are many different cultures and within them many people , many of who will have different opinions on this , they are not wrong because they are not offended

Timeforachangetoday12 · 02/10/2021 17:49

@worriedatthemoment I think I was really rubbish at explaining myself - there had been some behaviour/comments around my dad being Scottish and the reason why my fil wanted to wear a kilt. Anyhow they had made him a lovely matching waistcoat and the day well and that’s all that matters!
I shall be quiet and go back in my box :)

Timeforachangetoday12 · 02/10/2021 17:50

*not my fil my dads to be fil

worriedatthemoment · 02/10/2021 18:09

@Timeforachangetoday12 no need to go back in the box your entitled to comment As well , like you say as long as all happy on the day and like you say often background is context as well around decisions

Siameasy · 02/10/2021 18:19

A lot of it is entirely subjective because there is no “POC en masse”. Some people in the media is not “POC en masse”.

This is a social media thing. In my experience, people from overseas often love sharing their culture. Eg Nigerian work colleagues offering (unsolicited) to braid European colleagues’ hair.

(Personally I do dislike how the Kardashians seem to exploit black styles/culture. That crosses a line for me but clearly doesn’t for them)

Siameasy · 02/10/2021 18:22

I’ve often wondered if it is considered inappropriate by the online thought police to wear a headscarf as I have shit hair and in any case, I think they look elegant.

FellInLoveWithABanana · 02/10/2021 18:31

I think Rihanna, the woman who not only stayed with the man who beat her up, but went on to make music with him, is definitely to best role model so she can’t do anything wrong.