To think bus drivers should manage the behaviour of teenagers on their bus?

[user64323]

I get the bus to and from school with my reception age child. I am really struggling with how to cope with the awful behaviour of teenagers from the school next door to my son's. For the record, this is a public bus, and not a school bus.

Today as usual there were no empty double seats, and my son was wobbly trying to hold on to the bar so I asked a teenage girl if she could please move her leg off the seat next to her so he could sit down. She moved it slightly but refused to move her knee off it, as she was talking to her friends in the seats behind. She then went on and on about how she was going to fucking batter the stupid fucking bitch etc on and on and on. A girl on the other side of the aisle kept kicking the back of my leg. As soon as a seat became available further up I moved my son into it to try and get away from the swearing. Unfortunately this was right next to a group of younger teens about age 13 who were very roughly play fighting, swiping each others legs, smacking each other over the head, hitting with bags, kicking etc eventually when one was grabbing another in the aisle by the ankles trying to knock him backwards I asked them to please stop, because if he falls back he is going to land on my son. They stopped for maybe a minute and then just carried on.

Then one boy huffed very loudly behind me, apparently because his stop was approaching. Then he did the same to the people in front and started swearing about needing to get off. I told him to try saying excuse me, and people might move for him. A few more pushed passed me. Then approaching our stop a boy probably about 16 or 17 and 6ft tall shoved me out the way very roughly by my shoulder followed by 'scuse' and nearly knocked me off my feet, I confronted him and told him I was also getting off at this stop and if he'd said excuse me I could have told him and there is no need to push me. Then my son who no longer had anything to hold on to fell over into the fighting kids while the boy who shoved me was screaming 'Who the fuck are you talking to? who the fuck do you think you are! I fucking said excuse me you stupid cow' etc I left the bus very shaken up and queried the driver about the fighting kids and asked why they hadn't been asked to leave the bus, and he said there was nothing they could do about it because they have a duty of care to minors. I said, so they could do anything they want? He said yes, I ended up crying, I was just full of frustration and shock from being shoved, and now I don't think I can ever get on the bus again because they know they can do whatever they want and they saw me so upset and probably revelled in it.

What about a duty of care to other passengers? If this was a school bus service I would understand, but this is a public route. The buses on the route are every half hour so they wouldn't be left stranded if they behaved enough to be asked to leave. Surely a bus driver isn't in loco parentis? I will be getting in touch with the bus company to find out if this is right, but if it is, I don't feel safe to take the bus anymore. If adults fought or shoved they'd be done for assault, so how is this allowed?

There is a very small minority of other pupils who take this bus who hate it too, they will offer a seat or ask others to say excuse me when they shove and they look absolutely miserable, there should be a duty of care to them too.

AIBU to think that teenagers shouldn't be able to run riot on public buses, and bus drivers should have a duty of care to other passengers to keep them under control or kick them off?

This isn't always feasible though, the driver is in charge of driving a big, heavy, vehicle and is responsible for the safety of those on board, and the general public. The only time I'd expect a driver to pull the bus over and intervene is if the behaviour is distracting them to a dangerous level etc. In an ideal world there would be conductors still who could try and maintain order, but those days are long gone. The bus company here puts on an additional bus at school times that's earmarked for students, which seems to work well.

@GladAllOver

If the bus driver had to get out to remonstrate with the kids, the service would just grind to a halt. And if the kids refuse to behave what can he do? He's not allowed to physically throw them off.

Are they going to melt if it’s raining? There was literally a Post on here a few days ago about school kids walking in the rain and most people thought they should still walk regardless of rain, they get on everyday whether it rains or not, and I said in a previous post I would walk but it’s actually worse! So many of them blocking the pavement (I’ve had to walk out into the road with my pram) because they won’t move, fights, the police are regularly called, throwing fire works once 😑 it’s a shame they can’t walk one stop know the wonder kids are so unfit these days

Fuck me OP where do you live?

Report to the school. I’m afraid that the bus driver can do nothing - particularly because it’s a public bus. They have a route to travel.

@PreparationPreparationPrep

Lots of people saying bus drivers are paid very little. As If they are on minimum wage. I know a couple of London bus drivers and they are on about 36K. Not sure about outside London.

I think the point is they aren't paid very well considering the amount of shit they put up with. Threatened, moaned at, disruptive passengers, anti social hours. I wouldn't want to do the job. I have a feeling its about 27k where we are. Better paid than some jobs but that's because it's a horrible job.

You are being completely unreasonable if you really think a bus driver should possibly endanger his life on a daily basis to try and control rowdy teenagers. It’s definitely more than his job is worth.

Hopefully the school will be able to do something

I doubt it; most likely they'll make the right noises, but little will happen except you eventually being told that they're off the school premises so not their responsibility

It happened round here, when a bus company finally refused to pick up any pupils in a particular area after a bunch of them attacked a disabled passenger. The only way they'd shift was if a member of staff actually travelled on the bus to supervise them ... and that's what they eventually had to do

@Rosebel
I think I was trying to say yes to all the above, but it can be a well paid job and some people actually like it. My cousins really enjoy their job. The shift pattern is not great but they enjoy driving - most passengers are not abusive and they have great friendships with colleagues. They wouldn't appreciate the pitying. They go In do their job and are clued up enough to know which battles to tackle. and which to leave to the inspector or police. What we can do is teach our kids from young to say thank you when they get on the bus.

They are driving the bus. Not crowd control. Complain to the school suggest they send someone on it to monitor behaviour

Obviously it’s not every child and most are lovely but behaviour at the moment in this country is shocking.

This seems to be a problem in society at large at the moment. Brawling in petrol stations, abusing hospitality staff...

Sounds awful op. Behaviour of some children in these situations will escalate if there are no adults keeping them in check and they push the boundaries further and further.

The best the bus driver can do is report to his company that the behaviour on that route is becoming an issue and the company can contact the school/police. I would try the bus company first to find out if they know it is a problem and ask them to keep CCTV.

If they were in school uniform and you know the school and any names then you should also contact the school and report.

Try police 101 to tell them it is a regular problem and you were assaulted (pushed)/threatened/son injured/were in a state of fear (or whatever the CCTV will show), tell them it is a regular occurrence and ask what you should do.

I have lost it once with school kids and gave them my best stare and a very sharp, oy!, you are on the buses cameras and if you don't quit it now your school and the police will be contacted as you are causing a public nuisance. Thankfully another (more intimidating than me!) passenger told them they better do as they were told or I would have been battered!

@maddy68

They are driving the bus. Not crowd control. Complain to the school suggest they send someone on it to monitor behaviour

Who will they send? We are all incredibly busy as, due to Covid, we are teaching in children in school and children at home at the same time and these things need planning. If it is after the end of a school day, it would require an additional payment as no teacher is going to volunteer for it without getting paid.

Phone the police and ask them to do some checks. Stop using schools as the cure to all of society’s ills and let us focus on our jobs again.

Quite rightly many are commenting that bus drivers can’t be expected to do two things at once but there seems to be no issue with asking teachers to prep, plan and deliver lessons whilst delivering free meals and stopping children playing on the railway lines in the summer holidays and patrolling buses after school has finished…

On a salary basis, the wages earned by bus drivers far outstrip many teachers too.

Okay so you want the bus drivers to referee a public bus full of arsehole teens while trying to get their passengers to their destination on time?

It may not be the teachers' responsibility but it sure isn't the driver's. It would be nice if the parents dealt with it but they won't.

Perhaps they should have school buses only which are in fact funded by the school?

@LukeEvansWife

DP is a bus driver, he HATES the school time buses. He always has a grumble when he sees from his rota that he will be at certain stops at certain times because he knows it will be mayhem.

Please tell him he has my sympathy. When I get on I try to smile supportively at them - it's shit!

I've passed on your sympathy .

Two things that DP will do (and is ok to do) is shut the doors when the school kids all rush on. He gets out of his cab and does a head count. And makes sure all seats are taken with passengers, and he is ok with his limit of standing passengers.

He will also help a driver out. If he 'catches up' the bus in front of his because of the volume of passengers getting on he will pull up and tell the kids to get on his bus. Or he will radio in, not stop, and overtake that bus to ease the passenger load further on.

No, I agree it’s not the bus driver’s job. It’s antisocial behaviour so call the police (whose job it is to deal with antisocial behaviour) and ask them to deal with it in the same way as they would for other group of people. With a bit of luck they will contact the parents and the parents will listen if the police are involved.

I’d support having more designated school buses to keep them away from the general public but I think they are funded by councils and not schools. It would mean cuts elsewhere or more tax rises.

I'm sorry you had this experience. I remember being in awe of a bus driver who told off some middle aged adults who were drinking, but I suppose not every bus driver is brave enough and I don't really blame them.

OP, you arenot being unreasonable about the terrible behaviour on the bus, but you are being unreasonable about expecting the driver to "control" the children. How on earth is he expected to safely drive a bus and control hordes of rampaging kids.
I am completely sympathetic, I was really scared of the kids on the bus when I went to school forty odd years ago, and still feel intimidated, but I don't think the answer lies with the driver.

Feel sorry for both bus drivers and teachers for the baton being passed backwards and forwards, having to put up with, mitigating and resolving bad behaviour from shocking kids when the only ones who are and should be 100% responsible for it are the kids themselves and their parents.

BustopherPonsonbyJones we do NOT make more than teachers and it is NOT our job to babysit unruly kids.
Teachers are in their profession BECAUSE of kids, THEIR choice. And if kids act up in THEIR classroom, they are allowed to send them to the Pricipal who will then take care of the situation!
We contact the Principal of their school and even have video of them acting up and abusing the drivers and all the innocent passengers on board with their obscenities and trashing the buses.
All the school does is send someone to travel along on the bus 1 time a year! And that is when the kids do NOT act up! So what do we do the rest of the year?
I say we start getting the police involved and start having the parents pay fines!
No other solution exists unfortunately!

This is a blast from the past. Yes, teachers are in their job to TEACH children IN school. That doesn’t include monitoring behaviour on bus journeys to and from schools. The bus driver should be able to deal with badly behaved children in the same way as they deal with badly behaved adults. I would hope there were inspectors but, if not, involve the police. Teachers can’t take the brunt of every aspect of poor behaviour from pupils all day, every day. We deal with it in school. It’s up to the individual businesses after that. Get the police involved and prosecute. These children have parents who are responsible for them. It isn’t the job of ‘teachers’.

I do have sympathy with you but I still don’t think it is a school’s responsibility.

You're lucky they're working

The ones on my DGC' s school bus don't

Report it with as much info as possible to the school and the bus company. The school I work at would take it seriously and would try to identify them. It is called bringing the school into disrepute. Decent schools are pretty hot on it.