To think bus drivers should manage the behaviour of teenagers on their bus?

[user64323]

I get the bus to and from school with my reception age child. I am really struggling with how to cope with the awful behaviour of teenagers from the school next door to my son's. For the record, this is a public bus, and not a school bus.

Today as usual there were no empty double seats, and my son was wobbly trying to hold on to the bar so I asked a teenage girl if she could please move her leg off the seat next to her so he could sit down. She moved it slightly but refused to move her knee off it, as she was talking to her friends in the seats behind. She then went on and on about how she was going to fucking batter the stupid fucking bitch etc on and on and on. A girl on the other side of the aisle kept kicking the back of my leg. As soon as a seat became available further up I moved my son into it to try and get away from the swearing. Unfortunately this was right next to a group of younger teens about age 13 who were very roughly play fighting, swiping each others legs, smacking each other over the head, hitting with bags, kicking etc eventually when one was grabbing another in the aisle by the ankles trying to knock him backwards I asked them to please stop, because if he falls back he is going to land on my son. They stopped for maybe a minute and then just carried on.

Then one boy huffed very loudly behind me, apparently because his stop was approaching. Then he did the same to the people in front and started swearing about needing to get off. I told him to try saying excuse me, and people might move for him. A few more pushed passed me. Then approaching our stop a boy probably about 16 or 17 and 6ft tall shoved me out the way very roughly by my shoulder followed by 'scuse' and nearly knocked me off my feet, I confronted him and told him I was also getting off at this stop and if he'd said excuse me I could have told him and there is no need to push me. Then my son who no longer had anything to hold on to fell over into the fighting kids while the boy who shoved me was screaming 'Who the fuck are you talking to? who the fuck do you think you are! I fucking said excuse me you stupid cow' etc I left the bus very shaken up and queried the driver about the fighting kids and asked why they hadn't been asked to leave the bus, and he said there was nothing they could do about it because they have a duty of care to minors. I said, so they could do anything they want? He said yes, I ended up crying, I was just full of frustration and shock from being shoved, and now I don't think I can ever get on the bus again because they know they can do whatever they want and they saw me so upset and probably revelled in it.

What about a duty of care to other passengers? If this was a school bus service I would understand, but this is a public route. The buses on the route are every half hour so they wouldn't be left stranded if they behaved enough to be asked to leave. Surely a bus driver isn't in loco parentis? I will be getting in touch with the bus company to find out if this is right, but if it is, I don't feel safe to take the bus anymore. If adults fought or shoved they'd be done for assault, so how is this allowed?

There is a very small minority of other pupils who take this bus who hate it too, they will offer a seat or ask others to say excuse me when they shove and they look absolutely miserable, there should be a duty of care to them too.

AIBU to think that teenagers shouldn't be able to run riot on public buses, and bus drivers should have a duty of care to other passengers to keep them under control or kick them off?

I once caught a service bus which picked up a lot of kids for the local secondary school. As it filled up, an older pupil was directing the younger ones to sit down and behave sensibly, and was obviously acting as a "bus monitor". I emailed the school to let them know how impressed I was. She was obviously a strong character, but I presume that she was also backed up by action at school if the other kids didn't cooperate.

YANBU about the behaviour; but the driver has to concentrate on the roads, stops, if women escaping a rogue police officer need their help, etc.
Seriously, though, I don’t think it’s easy for the driver. Can you contact the school? I would have thought they should be taking it up with the pupils (and their parents.)

Sounds awful - I would avoid that time and route if possible but it doesn't sound like you can.

As far as I know bus drivers do not intervene but what they can do is call for an inspector or police to meet the the bus and I think they come pretty quickly.

Report to bus company so bus driver on that route is aware complaint has been made - Report to School who may have youth workers and mentors to help. report to police in case they can get some community support officers to monitor the route.

I wouldn't record anything - teens are pretty clued up about phones and that will just give them an excuse to target you!

But agree it s not a nice experience for you OP

No, it’s not possible for the driver to manage that behaviour. The unruly mob won’t listen to him anyway, they are feral. If he tried to put them off the bus, mummy would complain. I would avoid getting the bus if at all possible.

the driver has to concentrate on the roads, stops, if women escaping a rogue police officer need their help

Too soon

I feel for you and that is horrible but YABU to expect the bus driver to deal with it.

One of my friends is a bus driver in London and the amount of shite he has to deal with from passengers already. Some really scary stuff too. He's had to be sent home 2 times from the shock of the stuff that's happened. I'm not really sure what you expect the bus driver to do anyway? They don't sound like the sort of kids that would get off the bus if asked.

Did you spot which school from their uniforms? A school is a place for disciplining kids not a bus driver. There's good advice from people on here to report to the school if you can.

Not a lot the driver can do but I'd still contact the bus company about ASB. They can then look at whether security cover might be justified.

The school should be your main approach though.

I’m campaigning to stop everything like this being in schools’ remit to as I think the last few years have shown that this is unmanageable and leads to a reliance on schools that is unsustainable for teachers - delivering free school meals, for example.

On this note, please report them to the the police. The teenagers weren’t in school (so not school’s responsibility) and their behaviour was anti-social. The police deal with anti-social behaviour and, arguably, will give the children more of a frightener and will inform parents. The bus driver has to focus on driving.

I'd prefer the driver to focus on driving and traffic tbh.
When buses had conductors...

I find it hard enough focussing on driving my car if I have noisy passengers - how you expect the driver of a double decker bus to monitor seating arrangements for 70-80 passengers is beyound me.

The driver isn’t going to be able to deal with it better than you managed. They’ll swear at him/ her too. Or if the driver stops to tell them off they’ll quieten down until he drives on. It’d be useless. And if he tried to chuck some off they’d likely refuse so it’d escalate into a big issue that they’re not equipped to deal with.

I’d report though to school

I hate stuff like this. It makes me so angry and it’s so frustrating. BUT if I had been trying to get to work on time and the bus driver stopped at a stop to argue with teenagers I’d have been furious. It’s not really their job.

Do bus drivers not just turn the engine off until the trouble makers get off anymore lol

It's the school's responsibility. The bus driver can't do anything except for repeatedly stop the bus and yell at the kids and then he'd probably get in trouble!

Report the offenders to school. The bus driver can't be getting up and leaving his seat, or even chastising the rough kids. I wouldn't put it past these nasty, swearing rough kids, to punch the driver if he told them off or shouted at them.

I think YABU and strangely naive expecting a bus driver to 'manage' teens when he/she knows it will lead to being verbally abused, threatened, spat at, accused of god knows what EVEN MORE than usual.
Add in the fear of being threatened, assaulted, stabbed while stuck sat driving or arrested/sued for assault if they actually put hands on the teens plus complaints made if the driver swears and what exactly does the driver have left to manage (quite intimidating) behaviour?

This is what the conductors used to deal with and my secondary had a few teachers who would be on the buses/trains for that same reason, teens being arseholes on buses at a certain time isn't new and they aren't going anywhere.
I would be getting onto the school and local press about it.

I've been on buses where the driver has pulled up and refused to move until the teen/group of teens get off the driver cannot touch them and they know that they also don't give a shit about you being late home/getting kids fed etc.
I've seen it work efficiently enough that the journey has carried on maybe twice and the other times the bus driver is left waiting for the teens to get off or the police to arrive.
The rest of us get off and walk to the next bus stop! or if we're lucky the next bus stops behind us and we get on it.
I have been present when the offending teen gets onto the second bus and repeats the sit in protest on more than one occasion.
I have been stuck on a stationary bus in some quite scary situations because as it turns out, teens who can be fucking vile and scary on moving buses are still fucking vile and scary when the bus stops...but now they're also angry and worried about losing face as well...with a phone in their hand.

I think most in your shoes eventually change something either their route, their choice of transport or what they're prepared to ignore.

I was a bus driver, and I refused to drive one of the local school buses any more, because the kid's behaviour was just dangerous. They were opening the emergency door as we were going along the road (could do with a massive fine like on the trains really), and someone was going to get killed. They wouldn't listen to me at all, and I saw them call their male PE teacher a cunt to his face. When I'm driving the bus, I need to be concentrating on driving the bus. That's honestly hard enough through busy areas with kids on bikes, and people stepping in the road on their phone, not looking where they're going.

I felt like we needed bouncers on the bus, or an army sergeant or something. I used to report to the school all the time, but they couldn't seem to control them either.

Where I'm from the bus drivers would have no hesitation in pulling the bus over and calling the police to remove any unruly passengers, including minors. They have a duty of care to all passengers, not just to kids.

FFS, you are an adult. I’ve had the odd encounter with dickhead teens on a bus and it certainly didn’t end with me getting off, shaking and crying. I’ve had several myself (although I’d be absolutely mortified if they behaved like this on a bus but who knows I guess), and in reality even the worst teen is not that hard to control, even in an unruly group. With the way you describe the encounter in your OP it’s pretty obvious how it ended up the way it did, your approach will achieve jack and let’s them know from the outset they have the upper hand and it escalates from there.

I'd report it to the bus company and the school. I live on a route between a school and some shops and kids used to drop litter (and throw it in peoples gardens) whilst eating their lunch on the way back to school. It was reported and the council got involved. I don't what they said to the kids, but it doesn't happen anymore. Schools are very concerned about their reputation in the community.

I've been on buses where the driver has pulled up and refused to move until the teen/group of teens get off the driver cannot touch them and they know that they also don't give a shit about you being late home/getting kids fed etc.

This. Stopping the bus doesn't work with teenagers.

I do wish bus conductors could be brought back. A driver can't drive a bus and simultaneously be in charge of students' behaviour.

I'm in London and use public transport regularly. In general, behaviour is appalling, particularly on the Overground. The government wants everyone to use public transport but doesn't do a thing to make it a pleasant experience.

I feel for you, OP. Not much advice except to suggest you contact the school and complain.

YABU about the bus driver. How are they expected to drive a bus as well as control passengers at the same time? Complain to the school.

I live rural and there is one bus. It is not a school bus but does take kids to school. The behaviour of the teens on it is shocking. Throwing things at passengers, shouting abuse. The bus is more of a coach with roller blinds over the windows, that spread over the width of several rows. They would use the blinds to hit passengers. The seat belts were attached to the seatbelt clips across the aisle meaning you had to step over sear belts while the bus was moving to try and get to a seat. Any man that dared to sit near one of them was accused of touching them or had accusations of being a paedophile. I saw a few shaken men. The drivers are powerless. I complained to the school and the bus company. I heard nothing from the school and the bus company recommended I get another bus. I know others have been told the same. There is only one bus, they run every two hours. It takes kids to school so there is some deal to do with that the bus company get but it was still mainly a public bus. My DP drives me to work now. Other passengers I know have made other arrangements too. The bus now runs virtually empty except for the teens. The company have made noises about how much money they have lost and they are only still operating because they get subsidised. They should really have put the safety and comfort of paying passengers first.

Next time have EarPods for your child and minimise the actual time on the bus by walking a few stops each end maybe.
Its impossible to stop some teenagers being rude twats. In their eyes you are in their space.

The bus driver can do what he or she does in similar situations. Stop the bus. Refuse to move until they get off. Call the police if they don’t. Happens where I live.

As many people have said realistically the driver won't be able to do much. Teenagers can be vile in school when they are known, parents can be contacted, be put in isolation etc, and the teachers may have known them for years.

The bus driver is a total stranger.

You can try contacting the school who will give out messages in assembly or to form groups. If the child can be identified there may be consequences given, but most teenagers won't snitch and some kids are in detention most night anyway so may not care.

Teachers sometimes get on buses when they are at the school grounds but obviously will get off before it leaves. Ultimately the school is not responsible for pupils action outside of school and the general boisterous behaviour is unlikely to change even if the occasional incident is investigated