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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say there are some decent men

717 replies

Poppyscone · 30/09/2021 15:31

I know there are many threads about how shit men are. It may be a shit partner not helping, abused by a stranger, sexism etc etc etc.

But to say some men are decent. My DH said this morning re the policemen just sentenced “we men are mostly basically shit aren’t we”
I told him he was one of the good ones and the good ones need to carry on trying to challenging these men who basically hate women
My DH had challenged many men over their behaviour towards women including dropping friendships.

I have epilepsy and DH had always had my back and supported me. Done more then his fare share with kids including most night feeds as well as working full time which I can do. Letting me sleep and recover after a seizure and taking charge without complaining.

He always make me feel good about myself, never pesters for sex and is a good dad.

Yep sure he had his faults he is a bit disorganised and he seems to think dirty clothes belong on the bedroom floor (but does pick them up when asked)
He snores like a machine gun and I have to wear earplug but on the whole he is a decent bloke and I am sure there are many more out there. I would just like to here about them

OP posts:
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OhWhyNot · 04/10/2021 14:23

Must be just a very few very busy men

If only these men would inform us or others of how much they hate women and girls and want to hurt them

minou123 · 04/10/2021 14:23

Thank you for the kind responses. Flowers

There are some interesting points being raised and I just want to pick up 2.

1. Where is the empathy from men
Quite.
There was a thread a while back from a man saying that it took having daughters to change his behaviour towards women.
Whilst he was being honest, I was really pissed off and asked surely he had a mother, grandmother, sister, any other female family member prior to having daughters.
He did respond and say it just never crossed his mind, but he has now stopped his "lad" behaviour, so he is now a decent man.

He was absolutely slammed by the vipers of MN.

2. Astonishing how many men don't know a single abusive man; but so many women know women who have been abused.
This is a mystery to me too.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 04/10/2021 14:35

He was absolutely slammed by the vipers of MN.

Good.

On a separate note, Dr Jess Taylor (video, upthread) is magnificent. And she's constantly, publicly, vociferously harassed, threatened, and abused for the sterling work she does and the voice she gives to female trauma and abuse victims.

Three guesses which the sex-class doing the threatening is?

CandyLeBonBon · 04/10/2021 14:43

My DP claims he doesn't know any misogynistic men in his friendship group.

Except he does. Both of whom I have either called out myself directly or refused to have anything to do with (second guy is his mechanic and made me feel extremely uncomfortable when I took my car to him to be fixed).

I told DP about this guy's comments, and told him that yes, he does know some misogynistic pricks who look down on women and aren't shy of saying how little they think of women.

He was shocked and apologetic and said he'd not really noticed it before. I told him that was a load of bullshit. This man is an openly sexist, misogynistic arsehole. He absolutely speaks like that all the time, it's just that because it hadn't directly affected my dp at the time, he just ignored him.

I really do think men either don't notice or don't care unless it's expressly pointed out to them how awful it is to be in the presence of someone that scathing.

aquamar1ne · 04/10/2021 14:43

Interesting thread. To my mind, there will always be men in societies with what could be described as ‘borderline’ personalities. What astonishes me, is the availability of free online porn depicting women being routinely choked, slapped and all sorts of humiliation. One of the most popular categories is ‘incest.’ You don’t need to be a shrink to envisage how this male ‘fantasy’ could become a compulsion and how the line between fantasy and reality can easily become blurred.

It is bizarre to me that as society becomes more woke on do many levels, porn depicting violence and humiliation of women is becoming mainstream. Imagine any other demographic - a racial group or nationality or sexuality or whatever - for which there were millions of free videos available at the click of a button depicting them being abused. There would be total outrage (and rightly so) and the sites would be banned. Yet, where women and girls are concerned, it’s apparently fine. This says it all.

When are governments going to wake up to this and take action. We have a whole generation of young men watching this sort of stuff as a matter of routine. I despair for the future, frankly.

ididitsocanyou · 04/10/2021 14:53

It's a male mental health problem I think. Having little or no regard for the wellbeing of over half of your fellow citizens boarders on depravity. It's the foundation of a highly toxic society.

It's crazy that this is seen as a feminist issue. This is a male issue through and through. We have to throw everything we can at addressing the notion of equality in men's brains so that they see all humans as equal to them. Then the entitlement and subsequence violence that follows will surely be put to bed. .

ididitsocanyou · 04/10/2021 14:59

And whole heartedly agree with you @aquamar1ne.

If I were to present a manifesto for change to the powers that be I'd start with the porn industry, followed by a big investment in male mental health to address their entitlement issues. Am sure these two things combined would make a big difference.

aquamar1ne · 04/10/2021 15:04

I’ll name-change after this anyway, but I was a victim of incest as a child. In those days it was minimised in my family. Although I never saw him again after it came out, nobody ever asked questions or mentioned it again. It was simply brushed under the carpet and he carried on living in the community as normal. It’s only in my 40s that the shock of what happened and the way it was dealt with even occurred to me. This is because it has been so minimised and normalised I never thought of myself as a victim really.

I was ‘date-raped’ in my early 20s and totally recognise the ‘freeze’ reaction described above. I had learned that as a child. It was more than freezing actually, it’s like an instinctive detachment.

I’ve travelled around much of the world as a single woman and encountered my fair share of bizarre / threatening male behaviour. However, I don’t believe all men are potential sexual predators, no. Not at all. There is a very wide spectrum and this is obvious.

My husband is British but from a cultural background where women generally don’t go out and about unaccompanied. Because of this, he can veer towards the over-protective (especially with two teen daughters as well). He is very intransigent about this at times and it’s hard to challenge because he’s so sure he’s doing the right thing. But what he doesn’t connect, I don’t think, is that the problem is men in general - whether they’re the ones hassling you or the ones assuming to protect you from being hassled! It’s two sides of the same coin and this is what women are having to negotiate.

OhWhyNot · 04/10/2021 15:11

I’m sorry to read so many awful stories on here Flowers it’s not fair what we have had to deal with

I agree much is about male entitlement.

What makes me sad is that from a very young age (before puberty) I learnt that I needed to be wary around men. I didn’t understand why the way some men looked at me made me feel uncomfortable but it did and I wanted to hide. That little girls should even be aware of this is so sad

Also makes me realise there is a lot of men who find girls sexually attractive not young women but children and many more than we care to admit to as a society

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 04/10/2021 15:39

I was ‘date-raped’ in my early 20s and totally recognise the ‘freeze’ reaction described above. I had learned that as a child. It was more than freezing actually, it’s like an instinctive detachment.

I know that feeling too. I was a victim of child abuse and was gang-raped at fifteen (the age at which I was raped twice; it was only about 3 years ago following EMDR therapy that I recognised the second incident was indeed rape). I speak about this openly, and have done in the past under the same Mumsnet handle.

As a child abuse victim my brain was already trained to shut itself down in this way. At that age there was nothing I could do to escape my abuser: it wasn't until adulthood that I even recognised him as an abuser. To you, your life is 'normal', until you seek therapy and one or two therapists/assessors have been so horrified they ended up in tears. And that wasn't I have to say the kind of detached professional response I was looking for.

My 'freeze' response was so well-perfected that I can't remember the full details of the gang rape. A semi-competent barrister would have made mincemeat of me in court. All I can clearly remember was feeling my breathing half-obscured and hyperventilating, and I can very clearly see in my mind's eye the exact colour and pattern of the carpet in the house where it happened. Of course, that now makes sense. I'd focused on the nearest thing I could see and my mind has blanked out the rest.

I've been treated for cPTSD and it's turned my life around. I can now spot danger signals, whereas before, I couldn't read these at all. Again completely natural: you can't live in a state of 'fight or flight' all the time when you live with an abuser, so your mind switches them off.

My 'spidey senses', as I've sometimes heard them called, have come out with a vengeance. I'm in my forties, and have never possessed such a thing before. That's an eye-opener. Which is how I know some creepy, sweating perve was filming me on his phone on public transport as recently as last week. I'd picked up on other signals, and am fairly sure he was doing this. I got the hell away from him PDQ, and would have texted the transport police had he followed me.

Women know when men are doing this stuff. We need to question the behaviour of men before we question what our gut tells us.

It's extremely unhelpful for women in this position, who have gone through life having been abused multiple times by men, to hear the refrain of 'not all men are like that'.

No, they're not. But enough of them are that the statistics of women killed and abused at the hands of men are disproportionate, therefore preserving our own safety has to be paramount. The bad ones are not branded on their foreheads with the divine stigma. Unfortunately, it's safer to trust no one.

ididitsocanyou · 04/10/2021 16:08

@aquamar1ne Flowers

ididitsocanyou · 04/10/2021 16:13

@MarieIVanArkleStinks I am so sorry that you had to go through all that.

ididitsocanyou · 04/10/2021 16:26

@aquamar1ne I agree that not all Jen are predatory, but the vast majority are complicit by not seeking to call out or understand that behaviour. Men AND women will stand solemnly to remember the fallen of the first world war, quite rightly. But they won’t acknowledge the victims of DM or sexual predators even though the experiences of the victims in both scenarios are parallel. I.e. just about the worst situation you can find yourself in at the hands of human beings.

Hop over to the comments section of the telegraph and you will see the extent of sexism in all its glory. ‘Oh well that’s because it’s right wing’ one may say. So hop over to the guardian comments and women there are walking vaginas. Either side of the spectrum, society hates women. Even women hate women. Not everyone acts on it thankfully but for every ‘bad apple’ there are numerous borderline cases as you have said. In contrast there are very few men who will genuinely stand up and condemn male violence against women without them having a vested interest. We need proactive action on a society and individual basis if it is to change.

bringincrazyback · 04/10/2021 16:45

[quote CBUK2K2]@MareofBeasttown the thread was a woman posting to say that not all men are scum. It’s the misandrists that are detailing the topic.[/quote]
This.

EspressoDoubleShot · 04/10/2021 20:17

First.I want to acknowledge women’s posts of rape,violence and incest

Truly horrific, Hard to read.
Thing that really struck me?…I am not surprised. No incredulity that this debased behaviour exists, just a resigned feeling of Christ, the scale of male dysfunction it’s overwhelming and on an industrial scale.

I worked in a team with some big blokes, they attended the gym, were confident people. One of them he Was assaulted by client. Worker just froze. Absolutely terrified. It was only by chance he was found as other worker wanted to go out for a smoke and went to look for his mate…

FauxPsychic · 10/10/2021 12:31

[quote CBUK2K2]@DeeCeeCherry can you please explain what was racist?[/quote]
Not surprised you're dealing with that poster whose MO seems to be stomping around the halls of mumsnet accusing some elusive poster(s) - or in some cases, specific posters - of one thing or the other, in a paranoia-filled diatribe complete with name-calling.

Not sure s/he has much to say besides telling posters what they've done wrong yet again - which apparently only s/he can see from her/his high-horse - and giving them a label instead of engaging sensibly.

FauxPsychic · 10/10/2021 12:32

@CBUK2K2

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