To say there are some decent men

[Poppyscone]

I know there are many threads about how shit men are. It may be a shit partner not helping, abused by a stranger, sexism etc etc etc.

But to say some men are decent. My DH said this morning re the policemen just sentenced “we men are mostly basically shit aren’t we”
I told him he was one of the good ones and the good ones need to carry on trying to challenging these men who basically hate women
My DH had challenged many men over their behaviour towards women including dropping friendships.

I have epilepsy and DH had always had my back and supported me. Done more then his fare share with kids including most night feeds as well as working full time which I can do. Letting me sleep and recover after a seizure and taking charge without complaining.

He always make me feel good about myself, never pesters for sex and is a good dad.

Yep sure he had his faults he is a bit disorganised and he seems to think dirty clothes belong on the bedroom floor (but does pick them up when asked)
He snores like a machine gun and I have to wear earplug but on the whole he is a decent bloke and I am sure there are many more out there. I would just like to here about them

@Tevion28

I'm sorry I hope you can all recognise it was a clumsy post and wasn't meant to offend

Which one?!

I've been bloody stupid haven't I

I want to acknowledge @youvegottenminuteslynn post. Freeze is a really common and protective response to violence & trauma
Physically and psychologically decompressing and closing down is protective and instinctive response
We aren’t all kickass and sassy when we are scared,vulnerable and under attack

@Tevion28

I've been bloody stupid haven't I

Yes. Extremely

Too much bravado oh yes kick him in the ass comments sorry all

I thought I'd share my story to get the point across about fight/flight/freeze.

Its something I don't share very often.

2 men broke into my house. I woke up and I made this weird half scream, half gurgle sound. They started to beat me.
I completely froze.

There is a lot to this story, especially how the police treated me.
But the salient point is, I was embarrassed I didn't fight back or defend myself.
The reason for my embarrassment is because people who have never been in this position think that's what you're meant to do, or what they would do. And therefore I "failed" and deserved the beating.

It took a discussion with someone who actually knew what they were talking about to realise that my body freezing was its way of protecting me.

You have no idea how you will react when something happens. But whether it's fight, flight or freeze - you should never feel ashamed or have anyone tell you what they would do in that situation.

minou123
Totally understand

What about calling everyone witches and accusing us of ganging up on you?

PurpleDaisies
I was upset at that point because I had started a thread and got myself into a pickle trying to explain myself.

@minou123

I thought I'd share my story to get the point across about fight/flight/freeze.

Its something I don't share very often.

2 men broke into my house. I woke up and I made this weird half scream, half gurgle sound. They started to beat me.
I completely froze.

There is a lot to this story, especially how the police treated me.
But the salient point is, I was embarrassed I didn't fight back or defend myself.
The reason for my embarrassment is because people who have never been in this position think that's what you're meant to do, or what they would do. And therefore I "failed" and deserved the beating.

It took a discussion with someone who actually knew what they were talking about to realise that my body freezing was its way of protecting me.

You have no idea how you will react when something happens. But whether it's fight, flight or freeze - you should never feel ashamed or have anyone tell you what they would do in that situation.

Christ that’s awful Freeze is a protective and instinctive response to trauma

Oh well, that makes it ok then.

@minou123

I thought I'd share my story to get the point across about fight/flight/freeze.

Its something I don't share very often.

2 men broke into my house. I woke up and I made this weird half scream, half gurgle sound. They started to beat me.
I completely froze.

There is a lot to this story, especially how the police treated me.
But the salient point is, I was embarrassed I didn't fight back or defend myself.
The reason for my embarrassment is because people who have never been in this position think that's what you're meant to do, or what they would do. And therefore I "failed" and deserved the beating.

It took a discussion with someone who actually knew what they were talking about to realise that my body freezing was its way of protecting me.

You have no idea how you will react when something happens. But whether it's fight, flight or freeze - you should never feel ashamed or have anyone tell you what they would do in that situation.

Freeze is just as valid a response, I wish it was more discussed. Any response is a valid response when attacked, our bodies take over and simply do what is most likely to keep us alive at the time.

I never thought I would freeze, just as I thought (and everyone i knew) thought that in a separate situation I would never be 'the kind of woman' to be in an abusive relationship and yet I was. Ballsy, gobby but insidiously attacked mentally by a partner to the point of being broken having previously been attacked physically by a stranger.

We didn't do ANYTHING wrong. We are not responsible for the atrocities committed against us.

@Tevion28

PurpleDaisies I was upset at that point because I had started a thread and got myself into a pickle trying to explain myself.

No you lashed out in anger when challenged on victim blaming remarks.

But it's good you now see you were wrong to do so I guess.

This video explains all the responses to trauma well. The 5 fs - fight, flight, freeze, friend and flop. It also talks about the guilt of responses but also that there is some thought process that goes into these responses.

From the bottom of my heart it was never my intention to victim blame.

I know I would freeze. Or flop. Recently I was in a car with a man I didn’t know well, it was work related. Long story short he ended up driving us down a dark lane on some waste ground ‘looking for an electric car point’. It was at night. I literally thought that I was seconds away from attack and the fear that came over me was indescribable. It was so fucking scary. Luckily nothing happened and he just git back on the motorway not having found a point, but I just froze. It also happened another time when an Uber took me and my family on a wild goose chase in New Jersey. Again, got taken down dark roads, in dodgy areas. Thought he was gonna pull a knife. But nothing happened thankfully he was just lost. I still think back and wonder what I should have done if things had taken a nasty turn but even in hindsight there would have been no way out. You can’t defend yourself because the perpetrator will make sure they are in complete power before making a move. It’s scary when you realise it, like the curtains are pulled back from your eyes. We are so vulnerable.

Thought I had seen everything on MN but this level of victim blaming on a women's site...wow. The desperation to argue that male violence does not exist

‘Men have a problem with violence’ is offensive’ and to twist the natural meaning of those words into ‘some men have a problem’ is the same type of redefinition of words that TRAs use and most here are fighting against. And then to just chant ‘NAMALT’ when someone calls it out is playground level debate.

I do see a parallel (regardless of whether you think it is a ludicrous analogy, and I suspect many get straight on their keyboards without thinking about it) between ‘men have a problem with violence’ and ‘Jews run the banks/control the money’, something I have experienced throughout my life.

It is othering language, alienates half the population and solves nothing. And predominately middle class wealthy women accusing predominantly poor less well educated men is not ‘punching up’.

We will always have some violence, it is the nature of us animals. It is amazing how little there is in the UK these days in historical and geographical terms.

That is not to say we should not try to reduce it further. There are strategies we can try. However, the idea that the problem is ‘men’ and that, if only they (somehow) dealt with their problems alone, everyone would greet each other happily and no one would ever hurt one another is a fantasy.

And @EspressoDoubleShot,

Testosterone does cause violence. You castrate a man or an animal and their aggression reduces.

I read several studies after your well educated ‘no’ sign in response to my previous post, and every single one said testosterone had a role.

All they said was that testosterone alone did not cause violence, which I never claimed: it is testosterone plus other factors (such as a bad upbringing).

I think you need to catch up with the thread @TheReluctantPhoenix
Significant posts. Now not the time for your and another thing argumentative posts

@Tevion28

From the bottom of my heart it was never my intention to victim blame.

I'm pleased you have been able to acknowledge that your posts were insensitive.

The power dynamic between men and women is the problem a d this makes fighting back dangerous and often futile.

Incidentally, my mum did fight back once she realised what was happening. It didn't matter - he was bigger, stronger and had a knife.

Generally I think men have an empathy problem when it comes to women and that it is widespread. Men like Couzens make choices - he does have empathy for his family, his daughter and his dog. It doesn't extend to women he doesn’t know and that he’s sexually attracted to. Exactly where along the line does the empathy stop so he could justify to himself what he did? My view is that all men are placed along this scale somewhere. They have misplaced empathy for women and girls somewhere and see them as inferior to their entitlement. Push a man into a corner and it will show itself, whether that’s putting a woman in her place, cancelling her, humiliating her or resenting her. He will exert his physical dominance. It’s in all of them to a certain extent, so in my opinion YABU.

@ididitsocanyou touches on a very significant point about men's lack of empathy. They really only value and empathise with "their" women - daughters, mother's, sisters etc. Whilst it is generally well meaning, it feeds into the underlying misogyny at play. A woman is only valuable to man if she can offer him something. Men don't value or have empathy for women as a whole group, just the ones that serve a function in their own lives.

I consider my husband to be a decent man, he treats me and the other women in his life well. However he is woefully misguided on the overall experience of being a woman. He was very much in the camp of "why don't women just fight back" until I pointed out all the ways that could cause us further harm. He was horrified about the amount of split second decisions I have to make do something as simple as getting on a train. It didn't occur to him that subconsciously I'm deciding which male is the least threatening one to sit near. He knows if the worst happens he can defend himself, I don't necessarily have that luxury. Growing up as a man and with all the privilege that entails he just didn't comprehend the choices women have to make on a daily basis when it comes to safety. When we say men have to sort their shit out, this is what we are referring to. They need to take responsibility for and recognise the inherent privileges they carry, and do more to challenge people that abuse those privileges.

Exactly @Theflamingnerd. My DH is the same. He is ignorant if the threat men pose to women and takes a ‘kick him in the balls’ approach. Nonsense to that.

There is also the camp shared by so many if ‘you can’t let it interrupt your life’. Well yes I can actually.

My old boss used to let his step daughter of ten walk hone from school on her own through fields. Interesting it was his step daughter but that’s another discussion.

His stance was that you can’t let fear rule your life.

This to me is ignorant of the true horror of what a perpetrator could do to a ten year old girl, and the impact that would have.

It’s not like crossing the road.

No man willing to put his freedom and his reputation on the line would stop at mercy. He will milk an attack for all its worth and I think this is what men especially miss.

Sarah’s ordeal would not have been clean and fast. It would have been long and hellish. It’s the stuff that’s NOT reported in the news that horrifies me.

Anyone who read the article in the telegraph by the sister of a 14 victim in 1973 will know what I’m on about.

Even a small threat of that is enough for me to tell my daughter to not go anywhere alone.

Men killing each other and men killing women? It’s different gravy.

That’s the issue.

I was reading a harrowing an

Astonishing how many men don't know a single abusive man; but so many women know women who have been abused.

May its the same man doing it all and he's just very busy.