To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

Dear OP,
I don’t understand. You said you are a doctor by profession but you cannot afford to put your 2 children through private education? We have been looking at prices and it averages to 13K a year in my area. If I were on a doctors salary, despite the cutbacks, I could have easily afforded it without thinking.
I am a childminder and my husband is on normal salary but we are going to scrimp and save for our child to go to private primary school. It definitely won’t be easy and a lot of sacrifices will have to be made but it’s only going to be for 6 years of his life. If he passes his 11 plus then he will go on to grammar school, if he fails then he can go to a state comprehensive but at least we can rest assured after that that we did all we could to give him a good starting base. We also believe that state schools are just too underfunded to be able to cater to children’s individual needs. There is just no comparison between a state school and a good private school. The class size itself speaks volumes.

@Toomuchtrouble4me grammar school is not a private school

@hibbledibble I find it completely incomprehensible that you come on here and completely criticise the state school system, the teachers that teach in it, then stir up others with the same opinion, then say you think some of the replies are uncalled for (I'm paraphrasing badly here, but you get my point...in my defense its early!)

I don't think that people are being horrible, I think people are upset by this thread and rightfully so. You're exceptionally lucky that youve been able to supply DC with extra support.

You're also being incredibly unkind, you have no idea who has and hasn't worked during the pandemic based on their replies. No-one is doubting what you have seen (and thank you for your efforts) but that doesn't give you the right to be as rude as you have been about the state school system. Nor does it mean that you can put up a thread and not expect some sort of resistance about what you have said!

I feel like unless people are to agree with you, their thoughts and opinions aren't valid.

@Beckso89

OP, as an ex-teacher, I regularly had gifted children in my class and they were always differentiated for but often parents refused to see this and always wanted more.

I also had a lot of parents claim their child was gifted but like your child they underperformed. The problem with that is it’s impossible to give them harder work when they are not understanding the basic work taught in the main lesson time because they are not paying attention. Your DD needs to listen and do the work properly if she/you want her to be challenged. She will not be capable of completing the harder stuff if she isn’t understanding the normal work (which she won’t be if she isn’t listening or is messing around).

It is very common for children to naturally do well when they are younger but if they have an issue with behaviour or focus, they start falling behind once they get older because they can no longer rely on intelligence and need to actually learn the stuff being taught.

If your child’s teachers say she is making progress then she is. I think you should focus on dealing with DDs behaviour. If she thinks the work is too easy for her, she needs to prove it by doing it and doing it well. If she was doing that, she would be performing at least as well as expected and wouldn’t be behind.

I also feel compelled to bring up the possibility that she does have additional needs that have not been noticed. I have ADHD and was only diagnosed as an adult - it often presents very differently in girls (it is NOT just the stereotypical hyperactive child who can’t sit still) and girls are tragically underdiagnosed. It is very common for gifted children with ADHD to be able to mask their ADHD symptoms so it’s not always easily noticed. However it still does cause issues like this and those issues often become much worse in adulthood.

Another alternative is that your DD is simply doing fine and she may even be messing around in class to rebel against the pressure on her to be gifted or she may be picking up on your attitude and not respecting the teachers.

What many parents fail to realize is that there are a lot of children in the class at different levels. This teacher is undoubtedly spending a lot of time planning lessons to meet all needs, marking work, giving feedback etc.

If your DD is not listening or engaging, the teacher can use all the strategies she has but in the end unfortunately she can not force your child to listen.

The fact your DD is making progress means the teacher is already probably spending a lot of time focusing on her and getting her to learn, despite her behaviour.

I also want to add that unfortunately, your DD is going to experience boredom a lot in her life and needs to learn to do things that aren’t always exciting. I like that education is becoming more and more child-led and there is so much emphasis on engaging the children and ensuring all children make progress. I definitely don’t want things to go back to Victorian rows and rote learning of course. But I also do think sometimes that it can set children up to believe that they should always be entertained, stimulated and perfectly challenged at their levels and that all of this should be given to them on a plate.

When I was young, worksheets and textbooks were the norm and I still enjoyed school. Whenever we did a practical activity like an experiment, or a fun lesson like a “solving the mystery using maths” I was absolutely delighted and still remember those lessons to this day.

Now, those “fun” activities are the norm but they can’t just be fun - they have to evidence learning for all pupils and be exactly tailored towards the learning objectives. Not a minute of the class can be “wasted” on non-learning. Teachers are expected to make 30 children constantly learn every minute of the day while still engaging them, supporting them and stimulating their minds.

Unfortunately, when you get older that all stops. My boss does not care whether I am bored, uninterested or would rather do something different. In life you have to do boring things, you have to push yourself instead of expecting everyone to do it for you and you have to take responsibility for your own work ethic.

I highly doubt the class teacher is doing literally no differentiation but I expect that it just isn’t the kind you are looking for.

I really recognise this post, in my young athletes that I coach. So often you get kids who were amazing athletes younger as they developed earlier, sailed through, always got picked for the team, but you have to work on it as you get older as turning up for training, being responsible, doing what you need to do for a tiny advantage, training in the cold and rain, all that, then losing in front of everyone sometimes, its often the early bloomers that are most at risk of giving up. Then they fall behind and some drop out sometimes or relearn how to approach it all.

I think it's the same in classrooms. When it comes to it kids have to do their part and meet half way and the teacher has to do their part. Early bloomers can't just rely on talent past a certain point then even fall behind, doesn't matter how smart they are, If they are acting up and not understanding stuff as they haven't learnt it they are actually a lower level than others and that's their responsibility.

I went to a private school ( was hardly taught just bombarded with work ) , became a secondary teacher taught in private and state. The state were far superior teaching standards. Often private do not have the most dynamic teachers. In fact not sure if true now but many didn’t even have a proper teacher qualification. I never wanted my kids to go private even if we could afford it. You can’t get better than a good state school.

It is what it is

What’s to be gained by berating yourself ? And complaining
Get them reading , tutor them
Etc

@Aslan007 I have no idea where you live but that is a very unhelpful post! The OP says she lives in London. Day school fees are at least £25k plus say another£5k for extras per child. House prices easily £750k for a small terrace. No way can you afford on a doctor’s salary alone. I frankly find the posters that say oh we were on minimum wage and sacrificed everything ludicrous.

@sheiselectric

I promise I'm not trying to be an arse...but if you went through private and can't afford to send your kid to private now...then surely you know going to private school isn't the be all and end all.

Children can go to state schools and still go on to have wonderful careers just as many private school students go on to have very average careers.

Well said. If you look at the proportion of graduates from private schools and state schools you will get a more realistic picture. There are more state schools in the UK and proportionally more students from said schools will go to uni. My children went to states schools and one has graduated with a 2:1 and the other has just started. My you best did not fall behind in lockdown despite the provision being limited. I have worked in schools and I am a teacher in FE, in my experience children who do well are getting input at home. Those that expect schools to do everything get let down. Parents expect teacher to be parents, disciplining, potty training, teaching them to use cutlery. If parents took more responsibility and stopped blaming schools, their children might do better.

Auto predict at its finest...
My youngest child didn't fall behind.
Just to add, my son was told he was coasting and not putting in effort and that he didn't listen and follow instructions. Turns out he had moderate hearing loss from birth and only had 65% hearing which affect speech recognition.
If you think your child is able but they are not progressing, push for assessment to see why.

I didn't go to private school and I can afford to send my kids due to my wages alone. I didn't though they go to state, and they are doing very well. It depends on the school and the child. I did make sure they got into a great state though

Most parents hire tutors to help their children with 11plus. Schools have to follow the national curriculum, not verbal reasoning for example.

A good friend sends her children to a selective prep school and has still hired tutors.

I went to a comprehensive school in a very deprived part of London and grew up on a council estate. I also have a BSc (hons), an MBA and an MSc. And my own business.
Get over it 🤦‍♀️

Agree. These kids need to do it themselves. They need their own drive not mummy and daddy flapping around them 🙄. Dh got to Cambridge to read law from a standard comp blue collar parents who both left school at 16. He did it all himself plus some of the teachers. To succeed in life kids need their own drive.

@orangeblosssom

Most parents hire tutors to help their children with 11plus. Schools have to follow the national curriculum, not verbal reasoning for example.

In some areas. Not where I live.

Why not pay just for year 10 and 11 or tutoring in main subjects. Buy books to work through at home?

I don’t think private school or state is that big a deal. Dh and I both went to state schools, did well, and learnt to get on with people and understand how life is. There can be a level of contempt and entitlement in privately educated people sometimes. Your kids will have a leg up in life by living in London I think- after uni they can dip in and out of careers/courses in the capital city for a few years if need be without having massive rent. So I would stay put if I was you, being from a small town myself that would have seemed like a big advantage in my 20s. Also surely these days if you have the option of saving to help them out with housing costs when they’re older, that is more important?
With my kids I feel that keeping them off their ipads/tech during the week, and for a few hours at weekends and getting them massively into reading, library trips, kindles, really helps all round with educational achievements. Also interesting tv etc together. But mostly keeping things happy and relaxed so they can find their own way. Try not to worry too much. Hope this helps.

@hibbledibble
I think some of the pile on you’ve received on here is unjustified. Some classic “sample size of one” comments from people whose kid went to a comp and then to Oxbridge, so think all state schools must be A-OK, or just ignorant comments eg the individual who argued that because all teachers do the same PGCE training [which they don’t] there’s no difference between the teaching in state and private schools. And lots of expectation that as well as doing gruelling medical training during a pandemic and being a single parent to two children you somehow also should be a better teacher of your kids than the people trained and paid to teach them.

The truth is that there are some really crap schools out there, which do not help children reach their potential and in some cases will destroy all their confidence and motivation. And it is very much a postcode lottery as to whether your child ends up in one of these schools. I wish more people on this thread would acknowledge this.

I don’t have a solution for you I am afraid (except moving area at the first available opportunity) but send solidarity nonetheless.

The truth is that there are some really crap schools out there, which do not help children reach their potential and in some cases will destroy all their confidence and motivation. And it is very much a postcode lottery as to whether your child ends up in one of these schools.

I do think that’s fair.

However, there’s another angle on this which is that the middle classes who value education and can’t afford private, usually use other versions of cultural capital to avoid their children ending up in these schools.

They do a lot of research on state options, they move to get into catchments, they hire tutors, they do lots of work with kids at home.

The outtake for me, is that a junior doctor who can’t afford to pay and who also is hamstrung on some of these other points, actually has a lot less ability to work the system that many other parents with less ‘prestigious’ jobs. Time and mental energy are increasingly an important differentiator.

Of course the fact that the OP appears to be a single parent (is that correct?) makes things even more difficult.

I’m not sure what the answer is OP, except that the time and mental energy needs to be found somehow.

Personally I’d be looking into private tutors for the younger one. The older kid might do okay in her secondary, but tutors could help her here also.

The OP has refused to say whether she's a single parent. We have no idea whether the junior doctor income is the only family income or not. So maybe it's not, and the family could in fact afford private school fees.

[quote Ziegfeld]@hibbledibble
I think some of the pile on you’ve received on here is unjustified. Some classic “sample size of one” comments from people whose kid went to a comp and then to Oxbridge, so think all state schools must be A-OK, or just ignorant comments eg the individual who argued that because all teachers do the same PGCE training [which they don’t] there’s no difference between the teaching in state and private schools. And lots of expectation that as well as doing gruelling medical training during a pandemic and being a single parent to two children you somehow also should be a better teacher of your kids than the people trained and paid to teach them.

The truth is that there are some really crap schools out there, which do not help children reach their potential and in some cases will destroy all their confidence and motivation. And it is very much a postcode lottery as to whether your child ends up in one of these schools. I wish more people on this thread would acknowledge this.

I don’t have a solution for you I am afraid (except moving area at the first available opportunity) but send solidarity nonetheless.[/quote]
Did the OP put her children on the waiting list for a better school, or a couple of better schools?
Is the OP keeping an eye on the local grammar school, so that her daughter can try to get in later on if someone leaves?

@Theendoftheworldisnigh

The OP has refused to say whether she's a single parent. We have no idea whether the junior doctor income is the only family income or not. So maybe it's not, and the family could in fact afford private school fees.

Yes, very odd that she has deliberately ignored this question several times. If only because of the father is involved in any way then surely the education of the children is a joint concern. If he is not then people might have more sympathy for her not having much time to spend helping the kids with learning at home.

Very odd.

Ziegfeld Excellent post.

@orangeblosssom

A good friend sends her children to a selective prep school and has still hired tutors.

Well said. I was so shocked to discover from my son's grammar senco when I apologised that I was going to use a tutor to boost the poor teaching for his maths A level, and she replied that all the kids at that particular grammar used tutors. So do the private school kids. The competitive streak in parents seems to demand this. I know parents with kids at school focus on what uni they can get to, what great job they can get etc, but do you know that's far more down to the child and family than it ever is to the school. For me, having got my sons through this stage, what I am happiest about was that they were at a safe school with committed parents, lovely teachers and great values -- not their marks, which did not matter to me. When my younger son dumped grammar for FE college to do a BTec that did not bother me. All that mattered was that he was happy and fulfilled and he so particularly wanted to do his hands-on BTec subject round the corner from home, and loved the small group of teens he was with. I think what comes through from OP post is not wanting the great marks as such, but the great marks would have got her child into a school where she would not have worried about her safety and happiness in her day to day setting. Those posters who don't have a sink as their catchment school are not realising how horrible that is, to know your child will go somewhere where the staff don't appear to care and the police are constantly outside the school gates.

The truth is that there are some really crap schools out there, which do not help children reach their potential and in some cases will destroy all their confidence and motivation. And it is very much a postcode lottery

Well that might all be true, but what I don't understand is why the OP feels that her children have a better right than any other local children to a place in a school that isn't the "terrible, and rough, local secondary" and why she thinks it is the primary school's job to make sure that her children don't have to go there.

Good grief , either button up, downsize and spend the saved money on the education you desire or get a bloody tutor in .

Cheesus Heist.