To feel I have utterly let down my children by sending then to a state school?

[hibbledibble]

I went to a private school, and achieved very well academically.

My children go to a state school, as I can't afford private school. I will never be able to afford it sadly. They go to the local community school, which has a reputation for not being academic.

My eldest is extremely bright, and tested many years ahead of her age on entering the local primary. Now, she has failed to even get to the second round of the 11+. She has really just coasted at school, as they have not set any appropriate work for her, despite multiple requests. They say they can't offer 'gifted and talented' provision, due to funding.

Her sibling is very behind on learning, as she missed loads of school due to lockdowns, and the school offered very little remote provision throughout most of the time. I have asked for support for her, but am told that nothing is available, again, due to funding. Meanwhile, she is struggling with even the basics.

I do think that both of my children would have done better, had they gone to a school where their individual abilities and learning stage was catered for, and they were helped to achieve their potential. I feel I have let them down by not providing them with a good education, which they could have had if I had the money.

Now it's looking likely my eldest will have to go to the terrible, and rough, local secondary, and the underachieving will continue.

My children were both gifted and talented’ in Primary school, but ended up being quite average. Some of their friends who were slower starters ended up doing extremely well.

Your children will be what they’ll be. Stop blaming the school and start looking at yourself.

Oh FGS. My DH and I have 2 degrees, 2 masters and a PhD between us. We are state school kids, from one of the "worst" wards in the country.
We have never considered ourselves failures but like you, we chose to work in health and education because we genuinely wanted to help, not because we wanted to become rich.
Our kids were state school educated but we did loads with them at home as well. Not pushing, but things like reading/acting out plays together for fun. Teaching them to fish, camp, identify wildlife, visiting museums, park run, music lessons, all that supplementary stuff that they learn tons from.
We always saw school as a tiny bit of their education. All 3 went to red brick unis, one is now doing a Masters.
You can't rely on any school to do all the hard work for you, except possibly a few boarding schools. Maybe your DC lack interest in learning, maybe they just aren't that academic, or maybe they have hidden talents you need to help them find.

You sent a bright child to a non academic school without being prepared to actively support her development. That's it.

Nothing will change unless you stop passing the buck.

Sounds to me that you have settled for this outcome because you can't be bothered to find a way through. Do you really think there is simply nothing that can be done about this situation?

If they are in a rubbish school, not learning anything with a bad secondary to look forward to why do you have to settle for this?

You are both clearly bright people so why can't you work a way out of this? Some people cross the world on foot to sort out their lives and children's futures. You have a load of options available but it seems to me that you are just happy to think you have failed.

Their education needs to be a priority now as time is running out. Why don't you put their education before your career? Move schools, move locations, change your life style - you could do this if you really want to.

@albertselephants

Look at ALL other possibilities of schools. It is not a nationwide issue in the way the headteacher is saying.

My childrens catchment school is appalling. My daughter was reading Matilda in year 1 and her teacher confiscated the book because 'children don't read'. When I finally pulled her out at the end of year 4 they told me she 'just wasn't any good at maths'. I knew this was rubbish as I am a maths teacher!
I moved both my kids to the next closest school and the difference is astounding. My eldest got the highest maths sats result the school had seen and my youngest is thriving. A teacher makes all the difference and because of this, not all schools are equal.

@albertselephants My childrens catchment school is appalling. My daughter was reading Matilda in year 1 and her teacher confiscated the book because 'children don't read'. Surely this was done ironically? No?

Honestly, if they are that bright they will achieve at a comp. They have contextual data and get hammered if kids underachieving. All 3 of mine at comps . Youngest not school fond but even not doing his homework, nothing in lockdowm he should achieve As and Bs at GCSE which would be plenty good enough for most uni courses when it comes to it.

All that said: oodles of children are educated well for free. Arguably the best combination is engaged parents, and an 'outstanding' state school with a tiny catchment area consisting of similarly engaged parents with monstrously expensive houses. However, the reality for most people is pretty rubbish or, at best patchy, state provision.

I’m sorry, but I don’t know which area of the country you’re from if the state schools are “rubbish” or at best “patchy”.

Lots of children up and down the country receive a very god education from state schools. In fact all the state schools in my town provide kids with a decent education. Yes their sports kit isn’t as flashy as the local private and their busses are older. But there was a year not so long ago when the private school got the lowest results at gcse of the lot! I bet those parents felt great about all the money they’d shelled out on their kids education for the school to get worse results than even the towns “roughest” state school.

I int think you have let them down, if you are a loving parent and provide a good home life then then they arent let down, you are being hard on yourself.
My children have always been in state education, however many of my friends have sent their children to private schools and I think it some ways private schools make a difference, a class of 10 children get a lot more of the teachers time then a class of 30. They have more resources and opportunities and they often the pupils have more self belief and confidence (I dont know why). So I do understand what you mean as although I dont feel Ive let my kid down its naive to say there are no advantages to private education.

YABU Don't feel you are letting your children down by sending them to a state school, lots of kids go to state schools and do well academically.

Set your expectations of your children high, make it clear that you expect them to work hard, be a pleasure to teach and do well, and that if you hear anything else from the school there will be trouble. Believe in them, tell them they are capable of doing anything they choose to do. You obviously don't have much time to support their learning, so enlist help. Grandparents? A childminder who won't let them out to play until homework is done?

Never let a kid think that you think they are failing and that it's all your fault as that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's also not helpful if you share your negative attitude towards their school. If your child is bright then get them into a school where the top set go to russell group and then kick their backside (not literally) every time they risk falling out of top set. Top set of the local comp may be better than coasting in the grammar.

Nomoreporridge

What are all these tests in state schools that accurately pinpoint how advanced a child is?

Is this an actual real assessment or a teacher saying once that your 7 year old read a book that’s aimed at 12-13 yr olds. hmm

I’m still wondering this but OP has never come back to clarify. It seems an unfortunate thing for anyone to say that could only lead to future disappointment!

OP, you really need to change your perspective.

My grandma (who lives with my uncle, his wife and three kids) told me that two of my cousins went to private primary schools and one went to state. I think they were going through a tough financial time when my cousin went to a state school, so they didn’t push for private at that time.

But he excelled, he’s the brightest out of the three. The other two who went to private are clever too but not as much. I don’t want to generalise, my point is, is that all children are different.

I’ve worked in a private school for more than 6 years. I can echo the fact that some teachers are not even fully qualified and still have teacher roles in private schools.

I’ve also seen so many parents think that because it’s private, that they do not have to put in any work. No, children need input from home. It’s so important to get all hands in and help them with their learning.

My sibling and I went to state schools and we did well. We went on to have degrees and excelled in them. But our parents have really worked very hard with us and helped us with projects, homework, school plays, field trips, even down to GCSE and A levels.

You really need to look at your children and see where they need help, and do this yourself at home.

My sister in law is a doctor and for a year she was part time before her GP training. It IS doable.

You are in a good position in life, honestly you are. But please do the learning with your kids at home. Take them out to educational places, clubs, museums. Hire a decent tutor who will address the areas that need improving and nurturing and please add to that through your own input.

But please don’t blame the educational system, whether private or state. Nowadays parents need to have a lot of involvement for their children to succeed. And learning is fun, it really is.

I hope you change your views. I hope your children go on to succeed in whatever they wish and dream about, and know that is not dependent on what school they go to. It depends on your influence, your input and their enthusiasm and determination.

A couple of things that you've written have really rung alarm bells with me OP. Your DD is the class clown and she resisted working at home. For someone only just at the end of primary school this does not bode well at all. Her attitude needs to change, and it's not going to be changed by the school. Students with a good attitude tend to do well, regardless of whatever "natural ability" they may have. But spoiler alert, there's really no such thing as "natural ability", achieving well takes hard work and focus, and with a lot of hard work on behalf of the student, students with only average "natural ability" (I'm being a bit sarcastic, again, ability is not fixed) can do really well. Schools have systems in place to encourage good behaviour, but without a lot of work on it at home, they're much much less effective. When she resisted doing work at home, that was your time, she was your responsibility then. It'll be the same at secondary school, it sounds like she'll resist doing her homework too. You can't let this happen, she will not achieve her potential if YOU let her prat about. If she continues to be the class clown, you need to discipline her. Don't let her, even for a moment, believe that you think it's the school's fault that she's misbehaving. She will run with that and use it to get away with bad behaviour. She needs to take full responsibility for her behaviour, and you need to support her schools fully in this, or her school career will not end well.

I am not sure it matters about state vs private but more the school itself. Going to a coasting school meant I ended up achieving well below what I should have. I wasn't encouraged or pushed and all I wanted to do was hang out with my mates. I was super bright at primary school and a scholarship to a private school had been discussed with my parents (which they didn't want to do). Because my A levels weren't amazing, because I coasted through, I went to a new uni to do law (which was great but in the UK everyone looks down their nose) and ended up achieving amazing things academically and in my career, which make my A level results seem all the more depressing. It is my biggest regret in life.

@hibbledibble, you have not utterly let your children down by sending them to your local school. When I first saw the title of your thread I thought it was a reference to a grown adult and that a catastrophe had happened.

Your dd is just halfway through childhood and has a lot of development ahead. Your influence as a parent will play a huge part in her education.

Hi
Education psychologist here with many years of teaching experience in private and state schools.
The biggest factor is home life. Second is school.
Why on earth are your children falling behind? As a medical doctor are you not teaching them all about science, the human body, genetics, interactions, people, physics, anything and everything you can think of? Is everything not a learning opportunity? If not it should be. You should be teaching them the skill of curiosity and learning at home. That way they go to school hungry to learn.
Sorry to be blunt OP but you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself and making excuses. Get an online tutor if a face to face one won't work.
I've taught many many children of doctors and usually they have very enriched home lives.

@CecilyP

Nomoreporridge

What are all these tests in state schools that accurately pinpoint how advanced a child is?

Is this an actual real assessment or a teacher saying once that your 7 year old read a book that’s aimed at 12-13 yr olds. hmm

I’m still wondering this but OP has never come back to clarify. It seems an unfortunate thing for anyone to say that could only lead to future disappointment!

Hmm leading me to think it's all down to reading age! There's no way a 7 year old would have learned the entire maths curriculum up to and including the start of KS3!!

Also, the OP mentions the school 'cant' differentiate due to funding which is utter BS because differentiation is sometimes absolutely nothing to do with funding! Differentiation can be provided without having to support and/or facilitate gifted and talented!

OP, comes across as very entitled, and really it's a funding issue which has very little to do with the state system and more to do with the government!

What the OP also needs to do, is ask the school what proportion of the funding went on her youngest from the 'catch uo' funding provided by the government. And what interventions are being provided to help her catch up. For example, reading and is she being enabled and entitled to pre/post teaching??

*catch up

but why can’t you have choices if you attend a state school? I had a choice. We all ave choices. I don’t get your point?

@Libraryghost because statistically private schools offer a better level of education. If you are a middling level student you will benefit from smaller class sizes and more personal attention therefore end up with better grades. It is that better level of education that gives you the choice.

When you say “we all have choices” that ignores the fact that someone leaving school with poor grades actually doesn’t have a whole lot of choice in what they do next, compared to someone who can choose tertiary education, or a decent apprenticeship or training course, or choose to do a vocational course. Someone with fewer qualifications has fewer choices.

My Mum and her siblings all went to private school, in fact my siblings, cousins and I are the first generation not to go to private school and all went to state. We as a generation have done a whole lot better than the previous lot who went to private school.

Sorry but you sound a snob to me and placing all the blame on the state school. To get my child through 11plus during pandemic I had to work with her daily doing tests and making sure she was on top of the assigned school work that was done remotely due to covid. Also whilst trying to teach my P1 aged child the basics, it was hard but graft was put in daily by us all. We also paid a tutor once a week when she was allowed to take them to keep her confidence high and to have a proper teacher to explain the more difficult concepts to her. People will succeed when they want it regardless of their status, put in the work and you should get the results. But at such a young age it's also down to the parents to instill a good work ethic in our kids and often its the determination that pays. I hope your child succeeds wherever they end up xx

@hibbledibble In my experience, most children even out academically (comparable to their peers), even if they enter primary appearing brighter than the rest. Truly academically gifted and talented (from primary to the end of secondary) is rare. Other children are socially and emotionally gifted and talented but this is not measured (or valued) and those are possibly the most useful skills in life. I was privately educated, but the standard of teaching was poor (private schools at the time were less regulated and not inspected); anything of academic value subsequently is study I have taken up myself. Be really careful about the language you use around your daughters regarding how you feel about this; “utterly let my children down”, “not academic”, “behind in learning”, these phrases are hugely negative and if you talk this way in earshot of them, they could turn it inward and feel they have failed. Much more damaging in the long term, than not having attended a private school.

I’m sorry, but I don’t know which area of the country you’re from if the state schools are “rubbish” or at best “patchy”

I’m in Central Scotland. Of the schools in my council area, only 2 are in the top third of schools in the whole of Scotland. The others are in the bottom third. It is absolutely fair to say in our area the quality of education is patchy.

Not ready a single other reply…

But you’re private education hasn’t served you well if you can’t afford to send the to private school? Surely that’s the hope in sending your kid there, that they’ll end up an a really good wage?

If your child is as bright as what you’re saying, she would have passed the 11+, the way your post comes across it’s as if she didn’t pass it?

Yeah private schools are generally better but you’re an example of someone who hasn’t benefited hugely from them so if your children do as well as you, then that’s fair enough isn’t it?

[quote CallmeBadJanet]@hibbledibble In my experience, most children even out academically (comparable to their peers), even if they enter primary appearing brighter than the rest. Truly academically gifted and talented (from primary to the end of secondary) is rare. Other children are socially and emotionally gifted and talented but this is not measured (or valued) and those are possibly the most useful skills in life. I was privately educated, but the standard of teaching was poor (private schools at the time were less regulated and not inspected); anything of academic value subsequently is study I have taken up myself. Be really careful about the language you use around your daughters regarding how you feel about this; “utterly let my children down”, “not academic”, “behind in learning”, these phrases are hugely negative and if you talk this way in earshot of them, they could turn it inward and feel they have failed. Much more damaging in the long term, than not having attended a private school.[/quote]
I was privately educated, but the standard of teaching was poor (private schools at the time were less regulated and not inspected);

I think that could still be true. I remember a friend went to a private school and she said that teachers don’t need to have degrees etc…. I was shocked

@CallmeBadJanet