Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School keeps taking away my daughter's shoe

517 replies

Dryrobeandnoknickers · 23/09/2021 17:18

This week my Year 7 dd's school is running some baseline tests for them and on Friday we received a message from the school to let us know about these tests and ask that they bring in some headphones.

Neither dd or I own any headphones that would work with the laptop and I completely forgot to borrow some over the weekend.

On Monday during the first test she explained to the invigilator that she didn't have any, but luckily they had spares. She was told that she could borrow them in exchange for one of her shoes so "that she didn't steal them". This happened for several of the tests so she had to sit in the hall for several hours without a shoe and feels like she was being treated like a thief, and that it was humiliating.

She has now borrowed a pair of headphones for the rest of the week from a family member but chatting with some other parents this seems like a commonly used approach at the school.

I asked the school for their side of it and have just received a response saying "in the past we have loaned headphones to students and they have forgotten to return them and this has cost the school a substantial amount of money to replace them. We feel we have taken a light-hearted approach to loaning headphones to students who have forgotten to bring their own into school."

I'm pretty annoyed about how this was handled - my daughter felt it was degrading and that it not pitched in a light-hearted way but she was treated as though she might be a thief.

If I asked a colleague at the school I work at if I could borrow a pair of headphones and they asked me to give them my shoe in exchange I'd feel pretty frustrated about being treated like that too.

AIBU and this just how things work at secondary school and I'm being too precious and naïve about how to manage these things?

I know that its not the biggest of issues in the greater scheme of things but it has really grated on me and I really want to raise it with the school. Surely they'll get more out of the kids by treating them in a respectful way (which their behaviour policy states they should) and if/when there are any issues and they don't treat the school property with respect then they should be given a consequence and the parents should pay to replace them. Why not simply count out the 10 sets of headphones at the start of the test then count them back in at the end?

AIBU to challenge them on how they do this? I'm guessing an email from me isn't likely to change things but really feel I should say my piece.

OP posts:
KateTheEighth · 23/09/2021 20:01

I think it's a great idea

I like your clickbait title btw

NumberTheory · 23/09/2021 20:01

@Dryrobeandnoknickers

I'm not blaming anyone, I'm questioning the approach.

The mistake was mine, not my dd's - so why humiliate her?

We were not told at the start of the year that these would be required. Yes I should have tried to borrow some over the weekend but I've been ill. I managed to borrow some on the Monday evening.

I have worked with kids who would have literally thrown a table at me if I asked them for one of their shoes but if I am clear about what I expect and lend them equipment will respond positively to the respect and boundaries I give them.

In my experience they are much more likely to be broken in class then go missing - so like someone else said, what do they do then, keep her shoe?

I don't think it's your mistake at all, nor your daughters. School can't simply require you to obtain equipment needed for activities that they choose. The school need to provide equipment for any student who doesn't (for whatever reason) wish to use their own. If it's too expensive to provide students with the equipment needed for an activity they need to choose a different activity.

I can see why removing a shoe could be seen as a fun approach by lots of people. But I can also see why it wouldn't sit well with lots of people too. State schools serve a captive market of children who have no choice in whether they attend. If your daughter doesn't like the idea it's not as though she can turn around and say "Okay, I'll go to a different school". A school's mechanisms for trying to deal with poor or forgetful behaviour by some students (or staff who could be noting who has school property and enforcing collection instead of relying on children to remember to return) should not involve taking children's belongings, especially clothing, just because they don't have personal equipment of their own.

From your daughter's perspective this is a compulsory activity she can't change or avoid and she's made to put up with treatment that she doesn't like, isn't universally applied and isn't necessary. My own feet would get really cold sitting around without shoes on and it would make me uncomfortable. Other people are sensitive to things like one thing on one thing off and possibly to having their socks on display or just the feel of their feet without shoes on. It's particularly unreasonable to do this to someone during a test, when unusual things could distract. It's not something a student should have to put up with because the school won't design its curriculum to fit its budget (which is difficult, I agree, but is at the core of the responsibilities of the leadership of a school).

It's bullying to insist on it happening and tell her she should just treat it as all in good fun (as some posters suggest) when she clearly dosen't see it as fun.

Kotatsu · 23/09/2021 20:02

Christ, you'll be incensed when you hear about bowling alleys!

It's not humiliating, it's just a way of making sure people don't forget, because it's exactly the sort of thing people will forget, let alone anyone actually taking them on purpose.

I've heard of people using similar strategies on themselves in hotel rooms so they don't forget their own laptop chargers.

Nillynally · 23/09/2021 20:02

Brilliant idea. Some people need to get a grip

BadlydoneHelen · 23/09/2021 20:06

'My own feet would get really cold sitting around without shoes on'

Given that the temperature has been high teens/20s this week I hardly think this is likely!

BungleandGeorge · 23/09/2021 20:07

I wouldn’t have an issue with it
If you do just get her all the equipment she needs of her own. When she’s onto the fourth pair because she’s lost/ broken them you may have more sympathy for the teacher!

BadlydoneHelen · 23/09/2021 20:08

((Waits for drip-feed of unlikely foot condition)

Smorethanthis · 23/09/2021 20:08

Not acceptable
End of

How can you concentrate on a test when you've got one shoe off. Or is this a way of disadvantaging some children further.
These Y7 posts are getting so depressing. What are we the parents going to do about it? Schools are accountable and are paid for by our taxes. We are not voiceless. It's not Victorian Britain. They get away with it because some parents think this is good. Those same people are the ones who don't tolerate SEN, blame people for their own poverty and are generally the 'I'm alright Jack' type. But they also shout loudest and have the deepest pockets. Do we want these people to control the hearts and minds of our dc?
It starts with a shoe.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 23/09/2021 20:08

@noblegiraffe

Students should not have cash on them to hand to teachers as a deposit and a kid is likely to forget to swap for something less urgent like a homework diary.

I’m sure I’ve read the behaviour management book this comes from and I wouldn’t personally do it but anyone who thinks ‘just count them out and back in’ has never tried to get a complete set of class equipment back from a large group.

I do know an NQT who tried it with a belligerent group who ended up having shoes thrown at her.

Yeah, they just say they gave it back to a member of staff who's now left. Or lent it to a friend who needed it. Sometimes nastier kids just take property off other pupils and then deny it. In some schools the quieter kids just put up with that as it goes on all the time.
Smorethanthis · 23/09/2021 20:10

Not everyone can magic up a pair of headphones with a few days notice. For LOTS of reasons. None of them are the 11 YEAR OLDS child fault.

Hopeisnotastrategy · 23/09/2021 20:12

@listsandbudgets

I see the schools point of view but surely it wouuld be better to take phone or school bag.

I wouldn't be too happy on safety grounds either. In the event of a fire for example your daughters foot could get stood on if people are pushing to get out

That's a stretch.
Porridgealert · 23/09/2021 20:12

[quote lannistunut]@Porridgealert when I was teaching there were plenty.

My point is that not everyone can afford things, not everyone is just forgetful.

I assume you have met a poor person at some point in your life?[/quote]
As a teacher you know that kids walk off with pens. Do they then bring it to the next lesson or the exam? No. They just expect another pen. In the exam years the maths teachers check that all the students have a calculator which they obviously need for homework etc. In some cases calculators are provided. And yet on the day of the exam they still don't bring the necessary equipment. This is not about being poor and honestly it's quite insulting to say it is.

MrsHamlet · 23/09/2021 20:15

Or is this a way of disadvantaging some children further
What a truly ludicrous post.

lannistunut · 23/09/2021 20:17

@porridgealert I have encountered you on another thread, I am not going to engage with you again but I did not say the taking of pens had anything to do with being poor - I said that NOT HAVING AN ITEM IN THE FIRST PLACE may be to do with being unable to afford it.

I make no link between wealth and honesty so stop putting words into my mouth. Biscuit

LobsterNapkin · 23/09/2021 20:18

This is a good idea. I forget stuff like this all the time but I would remember if I tried to walk off without my shoe.

Being embarrassed about this is normal at 11 but silly. The best way to realize that it to have an adult say "that is a silly thing to be embarrassed about. No one cares about your shoe or if they do they are idiots." Kids need to learn to get over these things.

00100001 · 23/09/2021 20:20

@ArblemarchTFruitbat

"in the past we have loaned headphones to students and they have forgotten to return them and this has cost the school a substantial amount of money to replace them. We feel we have taken a light-hearted approach to loaning headphones to students who have forgotten to bring their own into school.

How about they manage the issue in an adult way rather than taking this silly approach? If they must ask for something, make it a cash deposit.

...and when the child hasn't got cash on Them
lljkk · 23/09/2021 20:22

wouldn't bother me, I find it amusing

PanicStationsAhh · 23/09/2021 20:23

It does sound odd. But then she was asked to bring headphones and didn't sort any so I'm not sure what you expect?

sweetheartyparty · 23/09/2021 20:24

It’s a great idea. It has to be shoes as everyone has them and would be conscious that they don’t have it.

ArblemarchTFruitbat · 23/09/2021 20:24

...and when the child hasn't got cash on Them

Then the child owes them the cash if the headphones aren't returned.

00100001 · 23/09/2021 20:25

@MordredsOrrery

I'd be horrified if I was a kid and the school did this. From a social stigma viewpoint it's highlighting who doesn't have/can't afford headphones in a really unpleasant way.
Not really, it shows who hadn't brought theirs in that day...
00100001 · 23/09/2021 20:27

@ArblemarchTFruitbat

...and when the child hasn't got cash on Them

Then the child owes them the cash if the headphones aren't returned.

How are you going to get school kid to give you cash if they always "forget" to bring cash to school, or haven't got access to cash, or parents won't give them the cash
Headteacher412 · 23/09/2021 20:27

I think in essence it is what was intended - lighthearted (assuming your DD doesn't need to wander around the building without a shoe).

However, the unsatisfactory bit, as I see it, is that if the school want to run a set of baseline tests which require headphones, they should be providing them to all in the first place, not asking the children to bring them in!

lannistunut · 23/09/2021 20:27

@ArblemarchTFruitbat

...and when the child hasn't got cash on Them

Then the child owes them the cash if the headphones aren't returned.

A child can't owe money, and the parent can't either unless they were the one who borrowed the item and signed for it.

The child could receive a sanction. But you can't pursue a debt against a child.

00100001 · 23/09/2021 20:29

@Headteacher412

I think in essence it is what was intended - lighthearted (assuming your DD doesn't need to wander around the building without a shoe).

However, the unsatisfactory bit, as I see it, is that if the school want to run a set of baseline tests which require headphones, they should be providing them to all in the first place, not asking the children to bring them in!

Maybe they can't afford to buy 100+ headphones for a one off baseline tests...

It's cheaper, easier and more hygienic for kids to provide their own

Swipe left for the next trending thread