School keeps taking away my daughter's shoe

[Dryrobeandnoknickers]

This week my Year 7 dd's school is running some baseline tests for them and on Friday we received a message from the school to let us know about these tests and ask that they bring in some headphones.

Neither dd or I own any headphones that would work with the laptop and I completely forgot to borrow some over the weekend.

On Monday during the first test she explained to the invigilator that she didn't have any, but luckily they had spares. She was told that she could borrow them in exchange for one of her shoes so "that she didn't steal them". This happened for several of the tests so she had to sit in the hall for several hours without a shoe and feels like she was being treated like a thief, and that it was humiliating.

She has now borrowed a pair of headphones for the rest of the week from a family member but chatting with some other parents this seems like a commonly used approach at the school.

I asked the school for their side of it and have just received a response saying "in the past we have loaned headphones to students and they have forgotten to return them and this has cost the school a substantial amount of money to replace them. We feel we have taken a light-hearted approach to loaning headphones to students who have forgotten to bring their own into school."

I'm pretty annoyed about how this was handled - my daughter felt it was degrading and that it not pitched in a light-hearted way but she was treated as though she might be a thief.

If I asked a colleague at the school I work at if I could borrow a pair of headphones and they asked me to give them my shoe in exchange I'd feel pretty frustrated about being treated like that too.

AIBU and this just how things work at secondary school and I'm being too precious and naïve about how to manage these things?

I know that its not the biggest of issues in the greater scheme of things but it has really grated on me and I really want to raise it with the school. Surely they'll get more out of the kids by treating them in a respectful way (which their behaviour policy states they should) and if/when there are any issues and they don't treat the school property with respect then they should be given a consequence and the parents should pay to replace them. Why not simply count out the 10 sets of headphones at the start of the test then count them back in at the end?

AIBU to challenge them on how they do this? I'm guessing an email from me isn't likely to change things but really feel I should say my piece.

*🙄🙄🙄

It's not about 'fault'

It's about whether asking a student to remove a shoe in order to borrow equipment is appropriate.

You wouldn't do this to an adult. So, it's not.*

what's with the eye rolling- how about trying to use your words?
It is obviously about fault. The child is borrowing headphomes because her parent did not attach enough importance to making sure her child was properly equipped and then expected the school to pick up her slack,.The school can't afford to keep having students walking off with head phones, and therefore has put in place a system to allow them to help out children of feckless parents which they wouldnt otherwise be able to do.The OP then has the cheek to criticise the school for helping out her child where she has failed.
As others have pointed out , adults are often required to leave something as surety, when they borrow something eg bowling shoes!
I am guessing this is her first little darling in high school

Has it not occurred to you your DD told you she felt degraded in the hopes that next time you are asked to provide something, you will step up to the plate?

I just mentioned this to my dd who laughed and said a few teachers do this in her school. She said it encourages you to remember equipment!

The quote didn't work. It was a response to someone saying that the child could put their shoe back on if there was an evacuation.

Clearly that is problematic for the smooth evacuation of the classroom.

Changing rooms are different to this scenario. As for the toilet, I am not sure why a child would have their shoes off in a school toilet.

The OP clearly has no idea how much teachers pay, from their own pockets, for pens, books, calculators, headphones, because parents can't be bothered to be organized, just to have students not be bothered to return stuff.
It's no more humiliating your daughter to have her shoe removed than it is for me to be humiliated because I don't have enough money at the check out because I spent my money getting school equipment for your child.

This is quite a common practise.

I did a lot of supply and used this, if I leant anything to a student I'd want something of theirs in return, most college students it is their ID card that is also how they pay for things and access different areas but I have been known to have a shoe on my desk.

I also still have a stock of bright shiny pens with, "stolen from Ms sashh" written on them.

It's not about 'fault'
It's about whether asking a student to remove a shoe in order to borrow equipment is appropriate.
You wouldn't do this to an adult. So, it's not.
I only lend things to adults who I think will return said item. If I can't trust them then I don't lend. Teachers have to lend property and cannot rely on thoughtless, feckless teenagers to return it so they need to have a different strategy. When children learn to act like adults (y'know, like bringing in equipment when told) then they are treated like adults.
People learn by their mistakes. You are not doing children any favours if you mollycoddle them and stop them from learning how normal social interactions work.

YABVU Your DC needs to learn resiliance! There are far more embarrassing situations to encounter than giving up a shoe for forgetting something. In my day it would have been a detention so giving up a shoe is definitely preferable. If I had to give up a shoe I would take the other one off under my desk so I felt more balanced. I don't wear shoes inside at home so I would feel more comfortable without them anyway.

I am amazed at the number of people suggesting that taking a phone as a deposit would be more appropriate. Surely if the kid can't afford a set of Poundshop headphones, they afford a mobile phone! Others are suggesting taking keys - how many 11 year olds carry keys? Maybe I am out of touch but I think the shoe idea is brilliant.

You can leave the room without your phone, your keys, your cash card, your jacket, your bag. All of these could be forgotten. A shoe works so well as it is noticeable to 99.9 % of people if they only have one shoe on!

You can leave the room without your phone, your keys, your cash card, your jacket, your bag. All of these could be forgotten. A shoe works so well as it is noticeable to 99.9 % of people if they only have one shoe on!

Secondary school aged kids would be more likely to notice their phone missing than their shoe. 🤣

If it's just about reminding them to give the headphones back at the end, why not just remind them? At the end of the test, a teacher stands at the front and says "Everyone who borrowed headphones please bring them to the front". They have a list of who has borrowed headphones, and they tick them off as they're handed back. When all have been handed in, everyone can leave the hall.

@Blurp

If it's just about reminding them to give the headphones back at the end, why not just remind them? At the end of the test, a teacher stands at the front and says "Everyone who borrowed headphones please bring them to the front". They have a list of who has borrowed headphones, and they tick them off as they're handed back. When all have been handed in, everyone can leave the hall.

Says someone who has never worked in a school.

You will have chaos

"I didn't borrow them"
"Miss X took them" X saying "no it was Y"
"Miss look these are broken"

Meanwhile your next class are trying to get into the room or messing around outside the room and possibly another teacher wanting to come in.

@a8mint

how about trying to use your words?

Unless you are incapable of reading, you'll see I did use my words. 🤨

I explained my point of view in my post. It was hardly unclear.

It is obviously about fault

It 'obviously' isn't. If it's about fault, that's implying losing a shoe for the period you are using equipment is a consequence of forgetting the headsets. However, there are other ways to give consequences. This is a way to humiliate the student and is therefore unreasonable.

adults are often required to leave something as surety, when they borrow something eg bowling shoes!

That's true. However (as I posted already) the comparison with bowling shoes is plain stupid. You exchange your shoes for bowling shoes. You are not left without one shoe 🙄

I am guessing this is her first little darling in high school

What a horrible thing to write. It's also irrelevant if it's her first or tenth child.

@a8mint

Has it not occurred to you your DD told you she felt degraded in the hopes that next time you are asked to provide something, you will step up to the plate?

Or maybe most people's children just say how they feel honestly, rather than feeling the need to invent a feeling to get their parent to do something?

What an odd suggestion. Do your DC behave this way? Mine don't, nor do most people's.

I have been known to have a shoe on my desk.

Completely grim.

stop them from learning how normal social interactions work.

I really hope you aren't a teacher.

This not how normal social interactions work, that's the point.

Not Brussels. Gent.

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Oh good grief… this is the angst of the day?!

Your DD learned a good lesson…Have all of her required things. You learned a good lesson…provide the things your daughter needs.

If this psychologically scars her until the end of days you have bigger worries and need to focus on those. If she is having issues facing up to slight inconveniences and feeling uncomfortable, it’s time to teach her some resiliency.

Honestly, you (global you) all wonder how kids grow into confident adults? It’s no secret, it’s by learning from mistakes and getting through day to day irritations. It’s learning how to laugh off taking a test with one shoe on… it’s making a joke to your friends about the bounty you had to pay on a silly pair of headphones, it’s commiserating over the forgetfulness of parents (insert teenage eye roll here), it’s by realizing that showing your socks to all is not the end of the world.

That is how kids gain confidence and learn how to deal with the ups and downs with life.

This ^

That's hilarious

I can see why it works and it may be light hearted however, if that was my child he would feel really humiliated and embarrassed. You've also got to think of the kids who possibly can't afford headphones and this just makes them stand out more. The kids in my son's school would probably mock the child having to borrow headphones and only wearing one shoe. Let's face it, kids can be downright cruel.

@LampLighter414

Tory budget cuts over the years in part to blame.

My school years in labour days we all used to fail to return school items and stationery, teachers used to moan, but seemingly plenty of money that text books, pritt sticks, art supplies (e.g. pastels), hole punches, scissors etc always got replaced.

Now I understand that my local secondary charges students each year for art supplies and primary teachers often have to buy pencils and colours for classes themselves! Mental

If schools had so much money to just keep replacing items that were being regularly stolen and not doing anything about it, they had too much money and deserved to have cuts. The constant drain of those thefts takes money from other areas of education and the laissez-faire attitude of your school is what finally contributes to those cuts.

If schools had so much money to just keep replacing items that were being regularly stolen and not doing anything about it, they had too much money and deserved to have cuts.

This comment is just shocking.

all Nightlystroll:
Says someone who has never worked in a school.

You will have chaos

"I didn't borrow them"
"Miss X took them" X saying "no it was Y"
"Miss look these are broken"

Meanwhile your next class are trying to get into the room or messing around outside the room and possibly another teacher wanting to come in.

And yet science labs, art classes and PE all regularly go ahead without having kids in one shoe or having to bring in all their own equipment.

Changing rooms are different to this scenario.

How are changing rooms different? And what if they are not in a changing room but in the hall/dance studio/gym barefoot?

I was just doing a bit of googling to see what lots of schools do and came across this article from the Independent about a study that showed learning improved with no shoes on and it made me chuckle in regards to this thread

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-encouraged-adopt-no-shoes-policy-improve-pupils-learning-and-behaviour-a7044576.html

@Athrawes

The OP clearly has no idea how much teachers pay, from their own pockets, for pens, books, calculators, headphones, because parents can't be bothered to be organized, just to have students not be bothered to return stuff. It's no more humiliating your daughter to have her shoe removed than it is for me to be humiliated because I don't have enough money at the check out because I spent my money getting school equipment for your child.

The difference here is that you have a choice whether to use your own money or not. You don’t have to do it. It isn’t a requirement of your job. If your SLT said you’d have to teach with only one shoe on unless you bought your own supplies you would have recourse against them.