School keeps taking away my daughter's shoe

[Dryrobeandnoknickers]

This week my Year 7 dd's school is running some baseline tests for them and on Friday we received a message from the school to let us know about these tests and ask that they bring in some headphones.

Neither dd or I own any headphones that would work with the laptop and I completely forgot to borrow some over the weekend.

On Monday during the first test she explained to the invigilator that she didn't have any, but luckily they had spares. She was told that she could borrow them in exchange for one of her shoes so "that she didn't steal them". This happened for several of the tests so she had to sit in the hall for several hours without a shoe and feels like she was being treated like a thief, and that it was humiliating.

She has now borrowed a pair of headphones for the rest of the week from a family member but chatting with some other parents this seems like a commonly used approach at the school.

I asked the school for their side of it and have just received a response saying "in the past we have loaned headphones to students and they have forgotten to return them and this has cost the school a substantial amount of money to replace them. We feel we have taken a light-hearted approach to loaning headphones to students who have forgotten to bring their own into school."

I'm pretty annoyed about how this was handled - my daughter felt it was degrading and that it not pitched in a light-hearted way but she was treated as though she might be a thief.

If I asked a colleague at the school I work at if I could borrow a pair of headphones and they asked me to give them my shoe in exchange I'd feel pretty frustrated about being treated like that too.

AIBU and this just how things work at secondary school and I'm being too precious and naïve about how to manage these things?

I know that its not the biggest of issues in the greater scheme of things but it has really grated on me and I really want to raise it with the school. Surely they'll get more out of the kids by treating them in a respectful way (which their behaviour policy states they should) and if/when there are any issues and they don't treat the school property with respect then they should be given a consequence and the parents should pay to replace them. Why not simply count out the 10 sets of headphones at the start of the test then count them back in at the end?

AIBU to challenge them on how they do this? I'm guessing an email from me isn't likely to change things but really feel I should say my piece.

@Tailendofsummer

I'd love to know what the kind of things people in other jobs (you know, the real life ones) buy to bring into work that is comparable to what the average primary school teacher buys for her work each year.

I'd love to know what situations people think it would be acceptable to be told they can have an essential piece of equipment for their work if they do their job with only one shoe on.

@WhatAShilohPitt

What’s humiliating about it? All students are asked to exchange an item they can’t possibly forget about - a shoe - as a memory jogger to return the loaned item. I’ve done this with scissors and other minor things as they get accidentally packed away so easily. Not one pupil has ever complained in 20 years. Most have found it very funny. Your daughter was sitting down and didn’t need to walk about. What other item would be so easy to exchange that would be as memorable? I think you’re being absolutely precious by making it some sort of public singling out and pretty much an accusation of theft. In our school, all pupils AND TEACHERS take off both shoes to go into the assembly hall as it’s a sports hall that gets marked by black soles. Am now waiting for a mum to call in to complain about their child’s utter humiliation

For sense and sanity.... Thank you.

@00100001 and when they still can't afford to buy or borrow the next time, no shoe again. And that's the sort of stuff other kids notice, especially the ones who are prone to pointing out differences and not in a nice way.

You might assume forgetful but not everyone has money for these types of item, especially in the short notice OP was given.

Thank you @notthemum I'm glad it made sense to you. It's hard to explain that 'being organised' with lots of post-its doesn't solve the problem. Just reading the OP and remembering how hideous life was at that age I could feel prickles down my back.

This thread emphasises the gulf between neurotypical responses to this type of situation (ha ha, it's funny, they'll remember next time) and ND experiences (this won't help me remember and will likely worsen anxiety for this type of experience, plus the sensory imbalance of being improperly dressed with only one shoe would prevent me from concentrating on the test). ND kids living with poverty are particularly vulnerable in this situation.

Aircrew regularly put a work shoe with their passport etc in the hotel safe - genius

In fairness to the school- you had the weekend to sort out your own equipment, and forgot to/ didn't bother to. You said yourself you were fortunate that the school provided equipment which you hadn't for your daughter to still participate in the testing. Would you rather she hadn't been able to complete the testing, or that she did and without a shoe? You had your daughter need to take some responsibility here, and as opposed to blaming the school for embarrassing her, you had a part in that too by not providing the equipment required.

I think this is demeaning and unfairly affects those who might not have the money for a pair of headphones in the first place. Can you imagine the stress and embarrassment of a shy child in this situation? I don't know what the answer to the school side of the problem is, but it shouldn't be this.

YABU. This is ingenious and school were kind to lend spare headphones. Taking a shoe ensures they get returned immediately. Take your own headphones if you don’t like it.

We got headphones from the pound shop and most people have them anyway.

@JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon

Think it through.

What's going to happen in a fire evacuation if a child bends over to put their shoe on in the doorway 🙄

I've been evacuated twice from a swimming pool and stood in my costume in the car park. People can get evacuated from anywhere at any time whilst changing, not wearing shoes etc This only works as an argument if you therefore insist on everybody in school wearing full uniform, plus shoes at all times.... just in case. So no swimming, no changing for PE, no taking your shoes off for a dance or drama class and so on.

I think that is an awful thing to do it's humiliating for the child will cause them embarrassment amongst their peers, it's also a health and safety risk, what if they stand on something, or there is an emergency or fire, need the toilet have to go without a shoe? And not very comfortable to sit without a shoe. It's not a mature way of dealing with things and shows they don't trust that pupil it's a negative and immature way to deal with it and not a good way of teaching a child to look after and return borrowed items it puts a negative spin on it

But @Pinkychilla they (very rightly) dont trust the children to return things. And do give over with the health and safety guff, its embarrassing.

Why can't pupils sign for the headphones?

I ran this by 16yo DD ans she thought it was an very weird idea- she said it would be better if they took something else off the child, such as their phone. In DDs school they would have just done the test during a detention, and let the pupil use the headphones then.

Yea, schools do punish when a child forgets Food Tech ingredients, even if it's the parents fault, or if the child is late to school, even if it's the parents fault. Or if a child doesn't have a blazer or tie, even if it's the parents fault. Which is why you need to be pretty on the ball with this parenting business.

Dd needed some headphones for some tests last year. There was some in poundland for £1 or asda for £2.50.

Why would you want to borrow someone's headphones?

What are you going to do when she needs ingredients for catering?

I completely I understand it and when I was teacher training it was something that was suggested. I used to swap things for pens etc as I went through so many otherwise it's not that I thought that students stole things it was more that they forget but if they have a reminder such as missing a show then they are more likely to give back what they have borrowed.

I'm storing up all the "it's not comfortable to sit without a shoe" to support my viewpoint on the next "visitors must take their shoes off!" thread

The bottom line is you forgot
You are responsible for providing the equipment
She is responsible for taking it to school
You cocked up,
You could have sent a note explaining - you didn't
Stop putting the blame on the school

This is 100% your fault.

@Pinkychilla

I think that is an awful thing to do it's humiliating for the child will cause them embarrassment amongst their peers, it's also a health and safety risk, what if they stand on something, or there is an emergency or fire, need the toilet have to go without a shoe? And not very comfortable to sit without a shoe. It's not a mature way of dealing with things and shows they don't trust that pupil it's a negative and immature way to deal with it and not a good way of teaching a child to look after and return borrowed items it puts a negative spin on it

I imagine they get given their shoe back to go to the loo?

@Eskarina1

It's not light hearted if a teenager feels humiliated. Not every family can afford headphones and having been that child whos family cannot afford things others take for granted I shudder at the memory of light hearted teachers.

Teenagers always feel humiliated - whether it's being seen shopping with Nan, being dropped off in a crap car or a million other things.

If we based our lives around not humiliating the little darlings, there wouldn't be a lot left for us to do....

I love the Shoe Deposit idea...

@LynetteScavo

I ran this by 16yo DD ans she thought it was an very weird idea- she said it would be better if they took something else off the child, such as their phone. In DDs school they would have just done the test during a detention, and let the pupil use the headphones then.

Yea, schools do punish when a child forgets Food Tech ingredients, even if it's the parents fault, or if the child is late to school, even if it's the parents fault. Or if a child doesn't have a blazer or tie, even if it's the parents fault. Which is why you need to be pretty on the ball with this parenting business.

Hah, have you never seen the outrage on here when there is the merest suggestion that kids shouldn't have their phones on them at all times in school??

@a8mint

This is 100% your fault.

🙄🙄🙄

It's not about 'fault'

It's about whether asking a student to remove a shoe in order to borrow equipment is appropriate.

You wouldn't do this to an adult. So, it's not.

Tory budget cuts over the years in part to blame.

My school years in labour days we all used to fail to return school items and stationery, teachers used to moan, but seemingly plenty of money that text books, pritt sticks, art supplies (e.g. pastels), hole punches, scissors etc always got replaced.

Now I understand that my local secondary charges students each year for art supplies and primary teachers often have to buy pencils and colours for classes themselves! Mental

Sounds like a sensible idea so the kids don't forget to return the headphones. It should have been explained that it's so she doesn't forget because she can't walk off without a shoe rather than to stop them being stolen.