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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School keeps taking away my daughter's shoe

517 replies

Dryrobeandnoknickers · 23/09/2021 17:18

This week my Year 7 dd's school is running some baseline tests for them and on Friday we received a message from the school to let us know about these tests and ask that they bring in some headphones.

Neither dd or I own any headphones that would work with the laptop and I completely forgot to borrow some over the weekend.

On Monday during the first test she explained to the invigilator that she didn't have any, but luckily they had spares. She was told that she could borrow them in exchange for one of her shoes so "that she didn't steal them". This happened for several of the tests so she had to sit in the hall for several hours without a shoe and feels like she was being treated like a thief, and that it was humiliating.

She has now borrowed a pair of headphones for the rest of the week from a family member but chatting with some other parents this seems like a commonly used approach at the school.

I asked the school for their side of it and have just received a response saying "in the past we have loaned headphones to students and they have forgotten to return them and this has cost the school a substantial amount of money to replace them. We feel we have taken a light-hearted approach to loaning headphones to students who have forgotten to bring their own into school."

I'm pretty annoyed about how this was handled - my daughter felt it was degrading and that it not pitched in a light-hearted way but she was treated as though she might be a thief.

If I asked a colleague at the school I work at if I could borrow a pair of headphones and they asked me to give them my shoe in exchange I'd feel pretty frustrated about being treated like that too.

AIBU and this just how things work at secondary school and I'm being too precious and naïve about how to manage these things?

I know that its not the biggest of issues in the greater scheme of things but it has really grated on me and I really want to raise it with the school. Surely they'll get more out of the kids by treating them in a respectful way (which their behaviour policy states they should) and if/when there are any issues and they don't treat the school property with respect then they should be given a consequence and the parents should pay to replace them. Why not simply count out the 10 sets of headphones at the start of the test then count them back in at the end?

AIBU to challenge them on how they do this? I'm guessing an email from me isn't likely to change things but really feel I should say my piece.

OP posts:
Kite22 · 23/09/2021 21:58

@MamaNorth

Two dc at secondary here and really why did she feel ‘humiliated’? Surely she felt ‘a bit embarrassed’. Not exactly the same. The teacher didn’t dance about the class room laughing at her.

She just forgot to get some headphones, people are always forgetting things. It’s only a big deal if you make it one.

I would work on your resilience, this is a not a useful trait.

‘Prepare your child for the road, not the road for your child’.

This ^

There are going to be a whole lot of MNers' dc growing up with very little resilience. Seriously, it is having to deal with ridiculous complaints like this, about a pretty effective and sensible solution to stopping equipment walking, that has been going on for donkeys years and that all dc I have ever met find mildly amusing, that contributes to the reason why teachers do not want to stay in the profession. So much time is wasted on things that parents should just either dismiss or back up the school on. Time and energy that teachers used to be able to put into teaching.

toocold54 · 23/09/2021 21:59

I think taking someone’s tie, phone, bag etc is fine but I don’t like the idea of taking a shoe!
Yes they won’t forget to give the headphones back but I don’t think they would if it was their phone either and I can see why it would create anxiety in a lot of people.

Griselda1 · 23/09/2021 22:02

I'd worry about the shared headphones, they don't sound like a good idea.With regard to the shoe thing I'd ask them to show you the risk assessment for it. I just can't imagine how they detail and score the risk

RavingAnnie · 23/09/2021 22:02

I think it's fine. They aren't going to forget to go and get their shoe are they. Excellent way to help them remember!

ChloeDecker · 23/09/2021 22:02

Schools just don't have the authority to require families to buy equipment that school doesn't find "worthwhile".

Not true and I did spot that you added ‘in limited circumstances’ to your outright claim earlier in another post based on my post, I’m assuming. Schools in England and Wales absolutely can charge parents for equipment. That equipment then belongs to that child to use in school.

borntobequiet · 23/09/2021 22:05

I just can't imagine how they detail and score the risk

I don’t think anyone can, hence them not doing it.

Briony123 · 23/09/2021 22:06

Your daughter remembered to borrow some headphones to take in. It is certainly a very effective tactic!

Smorethanthis · 23/09/2021 22:08

@MrsHamlet thanks for the grammar correction.
I had a pretty poor education myself for some of the reasons mentioned here but also now a Masters degree and a very good job so I've managed quite well despite this (and don't proof read my social media posts). You really are quite bitter. Why? Help is available. We don't all hate you. Why do you think that? With my dc teachers - some are fabulous. One or two are twats. Fairly average spread really.

And Teachers...everyone over a certain pay level pays for things for work from their own money. It's not just teachers who do this. We also don't all have huge final salary pension schemes and a union that means we work to rule.
Everyone is sick of the teacher pity party. Not all parents hate teachers. Most of have respect for you until you pull this kind of thing. Being in school all day must distort reality. The whole country is fed up at the moment because 'pandemic'.

borntobequiet · 23/09/2021 22:11

We also don't all have huge final salary pension schemes

Nor do all teachers

NumberTheory · 23/09/2021 22:13

@ChloeDecker

Schools just don't have the authority to require families to buy equipment that school doesn't find "worthwhile".

Not true and I did spot that you added ‘in limited circumstances’ to your outright claim earlier in another post based on my post, I’m assuming. Schools in England and Wales absolutely can charge parents for equipment. That equipment then belongs to that child to use in school.

Schools can't require that. They can only charge if the child wants to take it home and keep it. If the child doesn't want to, the school need to provide it (and retrieve it once it's no longer needed). This is frequently overlooked by schools and families are coerced into providing things they do not really want to and schools are not allowed to require (cooking ingredients being probably the most wide spread, classic abuse of this).
MrsHamlet · 23/09/2021 22:13

You really are quite bitter. Why? Help is available. We don't all hate you. Why do you think that?
That is some impressive leap. Wrong, but impressive nonetheless.
What kind of "thing" am I pulling?

ChloeDecker · 23/09/2021 22:13

We also don't all have huge final salary pension schemes and a union that means we work to rule.

Yeah, neither do teachers on both of those. Not since the 80s anyway!

FrippEnos · 23/09/2021 22:14

Smorethanthis

We also don't all have huge final salary pension schemes and a union that means we work to rule.

Both so very wrong.

WhatAShilohPitt · 23/09/2021 22:14

What’s humiliating about it? All students are asked to exchange an item they can’t possibly forget about - a shoe - as a memory jogger to return the loaned item. I’ve done this with scissors and other minor things as they get accidentally packed away so easily. Not one pupil has ever complained in 20 years. Most have found it very funny. Your daughter was sitting down and didn’t need to walk about. What other item would be so easy to exchange that would be as memorable? I think you’re being absolutely precious by making it some sort of public singling out and pretty much an accusation of theft. In our school, all pupils AND TEACHERS take off both shoes to go into the assembly hall as it’s a sports hall that gets marked by black soles. Am now waiting for a mum to call in to complain about their child’s utter humiliation Hmm

ChloeDecker · 23/09/2021 22:15

@MrsHamlet

You really are quite bitter. Why? Help is available. We don't all hate you. Why do you think that? That is some impressive leap. Wrong, but impressive nonetheless. What kind of "thing" am I pulling?
Could it be shoe laces MrsH?! Grin
borntobequiet · 23/09/2021 22:15

a union that means we work to rule

I seriously don’t know where you’re getting these odd ideas from. I’ve never been told to work to rule by a teaching union.

MrsHamlet · 23/09/2021 22:17

Quite possibly, ChloeDecker
One of my students took his shoes off in class today, as he does every lesson. He can't think in shoes, apparently.

noblegiraffe · 23/09/2021 22:18

Massive final salary pensions and absolutely loads of shoes. #teacherlife

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 23/09/2021 22:18

No I would not be happy with this.

If a school wants to carry out baseline test that require sound equipment then they need to provide them!!! a child being requested to remove shoes for a “loan” of equipment is completely unacceptable and degrading!!! Why not just tell their peers their personal circumstances no matter the consequences Hmm

This isn’t because of the equipment but what it stands for, for those children and their peers.

Standard uniform was brought in a reason!!!

Children were playing on a level field... by not doing this, the school is subjecting the pupils to poverty bullying and ridicule behaviour towards them.

Frankly it’s disgusting they would do this, plenty of belongings they could be removing other then the children’s footwear.

Tinpotspectator · 23/09/2021 22:20

I think there are more important things to complain about. It isn't as if some children are not asked to do this, in similar circumstances.

ChloeDecker · 23/09/2021 22:22

Frankly it’s disgusting they would do this, plenty of belongings they could be removing other then the children’s footwear.

Well, this post took an unexpected turn at the end’

NumberTheory · 23/09/2021 22:24

@WhatAShilohPitt

What’s humiliating about it? All students are asked to exchange an item they can’t possibly forget about - a shoe - as a memory jogger to return the loaned item. I’ve done this with scissors and other minor things as they get accidentally packed away so easily. Not one pupil has ever complained in 20 years. Most have found it very funny. Your daughter was sitting down and didn’t need to walk about. What other item would be so easy to exchange that would be as memorable? I think you’re being absolutely precious by making it some sort of public singling out and pretty much an accusation of theft. In our school, all pupils AND TEACHERS take off both shoes to go into the assembly hall as it’s a sports hall that gets marked by black soles. Am now waiting for a mum to call in to complain about their child’s utter humiliation Hmm
The DD didn't complain to the teacher, she did as she was told, but she still felt humiliated. It may be that the way you do it is very different to the way the teacher did it in OP's DD's case, but it's quite possible some of your students felt bad about giving up their shoe but didn't feel they could tell you about, especially given the huge power disparity between pupils and teachers. And given that when you do hear about someone who doesn't feel right about it you are so incredibly dismissive, it would seem they made the safe choice.

And the assembly example is totally different. If all students and staff had had to do it, OP's daughter wouldn't have felt singled out or accused of not being responsible or a possible thief.

myheartskippedabeat · 23/09/2021 22:24

This is total madness
Complain to the Governors

VenusTiger · 23/09/2021 22:25

The first thing that came to mind half way through your OP was 'forgetting to hand the headphones back' and that missing a shoe as you walk away is a simple reminder.
Better a shoe than a watch or something you're more likely to forget you've handed over.
Sounds like a common sense act to me.
I would suggest instead though, that they make a list instead and ask pupils to sign it out and sign again on return.

I don't think I'd have found it "degrading" though - it's just a simple idea.

Tailendofsummer · 23/09/2021 22:26

I'd love to know what the kind of things people in other jobs (you know, the real life ones) buy to bring into work that is comparable to what the average primary school teacher buys for her work each year.

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