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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School keeps taking away my daughter's shoe

517 replies

Dryrobeandnoknickers · 23/09/2021 17:18

This week my Year 7 dd's school is running some baseline tests for them and on Friday we received a message from the school to let us know about these tests and ask that they bring in some headphones.

Neither dd or I own any headphones that would work with the laptop and I completely forgot to borrow some over the weekend.

On Monday during the first test she explained to the invigilator that she didn't have any, but luckily they had spares. She was told that she could borrow them in exchange for one of her shoes so "that she didn't steal them". This happened for several of the tests so she had to sit in the hall for several hours without a shoe and feels like she was being treated like a thief, and that it was humiliating.

She has now borrowed a pair of headphones for the rest of the week from a family member but chatting with some other parents this seems like a commonly used approach at the school.

I asked the school for their side of it and have just received a response saying "in the past we have loaned headphones to students and they have forgotten to return them and this has cost the school a substantial amount of money to replace them. We feel we have taken a light-hearted approach to loaning headphones to students who have forgotten to bring their own into school."

I'm pretty annoyed about how this was handled - my daughter felt it was degrading and that it not pitched in a light-hearted way but she was treated as though she might be a thief.

If I asked a colleague at the school I work at if I could borrow a pair of headphones and they asked me to give them my shoe in exchange I'd feel pretty frustrated about being treated like that too.

AIBU and this just how things work at secondary school and I'm being too precious and naïve about how to manage these things?

I know that its not the biggest of issues in the greater scheme of things but it has really grated on me and I really want to raise it with the school. Surely they'll get more out of the kids by treating them in a respectful way (which their behaviour policy states they should) and if/when there are any issues and they don't treat the school property with respect then they should be given a consequence and the parents should pay to replace them. Why not simply count out the 10 sets of headphones at the start of the test then count them back in at the end?

AIBU to challenge them on how they do this? I'm guessing an email from me isn't likely to change things but really feel I should say my piece.

OP posts:
VexedofVirginiaWater · 23/09/2021 21:18

If they are left by the door then everyone trips over them on the way out - or some little ... dear puts their hand inside the door and legs it with other people's shoes.

VexedofVirginiaWater · 23/09/2021 21:19

@FrippEnos

I think that parents conveniently forget that often its not the school that supplies these items but the teachers themselves.
Quite
ChloeDecker · 23/09/2021 21:20

@FrippEnos

I think that parents conveniently forget that often its not the school that supplies these items but the teachers themselves.
Ain’t that the truth!
NumberTheory · 23/09/2021 21:21

@FrippEnos

I think that parents conveniently forget that often its not the school that supplies these items but the teachers themselves.
Teachers aren't obliged to (and I would argue - shouldn't). And it doesn't make it okay to require families to or Other a student or humiliate them. State schools in the UK do not have the authority to require families to subsidise their budgets.
FrippEnos · 23/09/2021 21:25

NumberTheory

So you would be happy for your child to sit and do nothing for an hour because they don't have pens, pencils, calculator etc?

Or fail and exam because they don't have the equipment?

itsgettingwierd · 23/09/2021 21:27

The news is currently full with cuts to UC and rising food and utilities costs.

And there is people who think it's acceptable to take the shoe off someone for no headphones for something the school has insisted they do.

Imagine thee child who's been cold all night, not had breakfast because their parents can't afford it. Then arrive at school and have a show taken because their parents can't afford headphones.

What next? Provide own laptops for these tests?

I fully understand education is poorly funded. I work in education.

But I just think is vile treatment and most likely another thing that those who already have the hardest lives will be forced to suffer.

But doing this

Peppapigforlife · 23/09/2021 21:29

İ don't understand why they couldn't just write down the names of the students who borrowed headphones, or write down their seat number B3 for example, and then walk and collect all the headphones before they let everyone leave. That's what they used to do with calculators.

dray9925 · 23/09/2021 21:33

I left high school in 2013 and remember some teachers doing variations of this it wasn't always shoes something you owned would do.
Some teachers would write your name on the board.
Another used to tie things to her pens so you could see they were hers.
Honestly no one cared no one would tease your for it I mean.
And it's not fair for the teachers and schools to keep paying out for things pupils don't return

ChloeDecker · 23/09/2021 21:33

State schools in the UK do not have the authority to require families to subsidise their budgets.

Not true. They can, taken from govt guidance:

Schools and local authorities can charge for:
• any materials, books, instruments, or equipment
• optional extras (see page below);
• music and vocal tuition, in limited circumstances (see page 6);
• certain early years provision
• community facilities

ohthatbloodycat · 23/09/2021 21:33

I doubt there'll be any lasting psychological damage Hmm

00100001 · 23/09/2021 21:34

[quote NumberTheory]@00100001

Maybe they can't afford to buy 100+ headphones for a one off baseline tests...

It's cheaper, easier and more hygienic for kids to provide their own

It's cheaper for the school. But it would also be cheaper for the school if all the parents provided their own chairs, football nets, bunsen burners, computers, etc.

In the UK state education is supposed to be free at the point of service - delivering that education within budget is a core activity for school leadership. If a state school can't afford something requiring parents to subsidise or Othering the children of parents who won't is not a justifiable approach. It's unethical to push costs onto families and it further entrenches disadvantage.[/quote]
These baseline tests are a one off though.

Parents are expected to provide one off cooking ingredients or pay for trips etc.

Peppapigforlife · 23/09/2021 21:34

All the people saying it's reasonable and the daughter shouldn't feel shamed or whatever the fact is, that the child DİD feel shamed, and she's just a child, so these feelings are very important.

NumberTheory · 23/09/2021 21:36

@FrippEnos

NumberTheory

So you would be happy for your child to sit and do nothing for an hour because they don't have pens, pencils, calculator etc?

Or fail and exam because they don't have the equipment?

Where did I say that? I said it's part of the school's core responsibilities to deliver the curriculum within budget without requiring families to subsidise them.

If the test isn't an essential part of the curriculum and the cost of headphones that are needed is prohibitive, the school should consider doing something else.

Though in this case, the school does have the equipment - it just chose to humiliate the student when she needed to access it.

Porcupineintherough · 23/09/2021 21:38

Most European countries offer free at the point of delivery education. Doesnt mean parents should never put their hands in their pockets though and frankly the British do this less than most nationalities.

ChloeDecker · 23/09/2021 21:39

If the test isn't an essential part of the curriculum and the cost of headphones that are needed is prohibitive, the school should consider doing something else.

Considering Year 6 children haven’t taken SATs two years in a row now, it’s reasonable for a school to temporarily adjust, in order to allow for some baseline testing. Probably won’t be something to continue if Year 6 go back to taking SATs and therefore, not worth the investment, just for a couple of days. It’s understandable in the current climate at least.

Smorethanthis · 23/09/2021 21:41

@MrsHamlet

Why ludicrous?
Is it because you are the kind of teacher that exerts your power over children for kicks? Are you annoyed you chose teaching as a career and are now stuck with it? Not exactly the kids fault though is it.
I thought we wanted children to be kind. Yet we aren't kind to them quite often.
If I made my children sit with their jumpers on when its 30 degrees would social services visit. If I shouted at the people I line manage regularly and demean them would I be allowed to stay in my job?
Loads of perfectly reasonable ideas for reminding forgetful children to return things. Removing shoes and other ridiculous behaviour are not amongst them. You are wrong. Tell yourself you're right it you want. Don't tell other people they are ludicrous without backing it up.

NumberTheory · 23/09/2021 21:41

@Porcupineintherough

Most European countries offer free at the point of delivery education. Doesnt mean parents should never put their hands in their pockets though and frankly the British do this less than most nationalities.
Other countries have different approaches to services. In the UK (E & W at least, Scotland and NI may be different) schools don't have the authority to require families to subsidise their child's education except in very limited circumstances. It's up to the government to change that, not individual schools.
MrsHamlet · 23/09/2021 21:43

[quote Smorethanthis]@MrsHamlet

Why ludicrous?
Is it because you are the kind of teacher that exerts your power over children for kicks? Are you annoyed you chose teaching as a career and are now stuck with it? Not exactly the kids fault though is it.
I thought we wanted children to be kind. Yet we aren't kind to them quite often.
If I made my children sit with their jumpers on when its 30 degrees would social services visit. If I shouted at the people I line manage regularly and demean them would I be allowed to stay in my job?
Loads of perfectly reasonable ideas for reminding forgetful children to return things. Removing shoes and other ridiculous behaviour are not amongst them. You are wrong. Tell yourself you're right it you want. Don't tell other people they are ludicrous without backing it up.[/quote]
Have you been peering through my classroom windows?

FrippEnos · 23/09/2021 21:45

NumberTheory

You said (and agreed) that teachers shouldn't be buying equipment for the pupils to use.

Exams are part of the curriculum. The amount of pupils that don't turn up to GCSE exams without pens, pencils, calculators etc. is massive.

notHarris · 23/09/2021 21:47

This is bizarre, but funny. It's supposed to be a lighthearted way of solving a problem they have.
It wouldn't at all be something I got upset about and I can imagine ds doing it and finding it hilarious although knowing him he'd forget and travel home with one shoe on!
Maybe relax a bit?

Smorethanthis · 23/09/2021 21:51

@MrsHamlet

English teacher judging by the name?

My dd has one that doesn't like anyone asking questions, stifles debate... bet she thinks shoe removing is a good punishment too.
Maybe time to reconnect with why you went into teaching in the first place!
(Peering into classroom windows is a bit wierd no?!?)
There are other professions. It's never to late to change.

MissCruellaDeVil · 23/09/2021 21:51

I get keys or phone etc but shoes! That's a step too far...

MrsHamlet · 23/09/2021 21:52

[quote Smorethanthis]@MrsHamlet

English teacher judging by the name?

My dd has one that doesn't like anyone asking questions, stifles debate... bet she thinks shoe removing is a good punishment too.
Maybe time to reconnect with why you went into teaching in the first place!
(Peering into classroom windows is a bit wierd no?!?)
There are other professions. It's never to late to change.[/quote]
I think you mean "too late" rather than "to", but thanks for the advice.

NumberTheory · 23/09/2021 21:55

@ChloeDecker

If the test isn't an essential part of the curriculum and the cost of headphones that are needed is prohibitive, the school should consider doing something else.

Considering Year 6 children haven’t taken SATs two years in a row now, it’s reasonable for a school to temporarily adjust, in order to allow for some baseline testing. Probably won’t be something to continue if Year 6 go back to taking SATs and therefore, not worth the investment, just for a couple of days. It’s understandable in the current climate at least.

If it's not worth the investment for the school, they shouldn't be doing it. It's not "reasonable" to do testing they can't afford to do. Schools just don't have the authority to require families to buy equipment that school doesn't find "worthwhile".

The idea that because school budgets are strapped it's okay to push costs off onto families is outrageous. Many families already report that they struggle with costs associated with attending school - from uniform to voluntary contributions. Families go without at home to meet the aspirations of teachers, heads (and, often, better off parents) so that their children feel like they fit in. But the money that goes into all these things the school doesn't think are "worthwhile" investing in themselves but still want to do makes many children's home lives less rich and more stressful.

borntobequiet · 23/09/2021 21:56

Not only do many teachers buy supplies for their classes themselves but over lockdown many weren’t supplied with tech by their schools or colleges, and had to buy their own - not only computers, but a range of sometimes costly items that made it possible to teach from home.