to just be sick of men..

[crochetmonkey74]

Caught by accident two family men known to me discussing how they'd 'got their own pictures' of a dance teacher who was teaching their 6 year old daughters. They were with their wives and children, both supposedly Christian - both in their early 30s so not a generational thing as is often trotted out. It occured to me that when they were dating their wives they would have been MORTIFIED for these new shiny women to hear them being so gross yet now the wives have committed, given them children, become part of the furniture they are supposed to listen to any old shit.
And yes, I know that there are loads of you who will say 'my DH /DP would never dream of doing this' so obviously I am not talking about them- is anyone else just fed up of continually being disappointed even by men you previously liked or trusted?
I know I am being ranty but i'm going with it!

also wondering how the hell I'm going to turn out a half decent man into society when my son is going to be faced with this tidal wave of porn and rape culture and anti-woman sentiment in his formative year

Are you saying it's the mother's responsibility to "turn out a half decent man"?

Funnily enough, I think many who hate namalt or anyone calling out hypocrisy are usually the ALM group or 'not all white women' group. That is my point.

Another hint for the detectives: I'm not part of the a ALM crowd. Can you say the same thing?

What about the statement: "(All) White people are racists" - Do you agree?

"(All) White women oppress other women of ethnic minorities" - Do you agree?

Doubt it but whatever you say to not address your hypocrisy.

The fact that they're apparently 'Christian' makes no difference whatsoever to their supposed moral high ground.

They're usually the ones nicking the sugar to take home

Definitely not an ALM person

White people are racist - yes, the extent of which is debatable

White women oppress other women of ethnic minorities - yes, I believe that people, women and men are prone to abuse the power they have

In these conversations there are very few incidents in which people state the (all) part, yeah you can find them, but like violent incidents committed by women they are like hens teeth amongst the posts that simply and correctly refer to men as a class. "People" who rape have something particular in common, does that statement not bear out?

@Clocktopus

I’ve definitely heard mums standing watching their sons play rugby and making comments about the coach. But I do have to say it is somehow worse when it is men saying it about women. I don’t know why….

Probably because the women are less likely to try and take it any further than a "phwoar, look at him", are less likely to sexually assault the coach, are less likely to sexually harass him, and the coach is less likely to be not be taken seriously by his peers because of it.

Yep I think you are probably right, statistically speaking. And I think the trouble is that many men don’t get that. They think that they themselves are saying it harmlessly, forgetting the context of sexual harassment, sexism etc that means that it is never harmless….

For those who trot out the NAMALT response - that may be true, but lets look at the percentages shall we? I have been so disappointed by so many of the men in my life who seem perfectly nice and then let that facade slip. It is just horrifying. I will be single for ever more.

"People" who rape have something particular in common, does that statement not bear out?

We agree there. I've never disagreed and that's what you detectives have failed to understand.

White people are racist - yes, the extent of which is debatable

White women oppress other women of ethnic minorities - yes, I believe that people, women and men are prone to abuse the power they have

Well, a 'yes' or 'no' would have sufficed but you see you've had to add a few more words to make sure it's understood it's not all. Why? All those words you've dumped there are tantamount to a "but" or "not all..."

That's what I'm saying. When it comes to white people or white women, there's an "er-er-er..." - sort of struggle to quantify the statement but not when it comes to men.

"A lot of men rape". Yes
"Many men rape". Yes
"Men" rape? What, all of them?

Same thing I say when men talk about 'women this' and 'women that'. What, all of them?

A lot of women here will call anyone a misogynist just for talking about one woman or two. Hypocrites.

Is what they did technically voyeurism?

Tell her. She should call the police and report it.

That should actually say:

"A lot of men are rapists". Yes
"Many men are rapists". Yes
"Men are rapists". What, all of them?

@Journeyofthedragons

also wondering how the hell I'm going to turn out a half decent man into society when my son is going to be faced with this tidal wave of porn and rape culture and anti-woman sentiment in his formative year

Are you saying it's the mother's responsibility to "turn out a half decent man"?

Oh give it a rest. How tedious. I am his mother. I am the one on this forum discussing MY feelings and worries. My husband clearly bears equal responsibility and I know it's something he also worries about because believe it or not we have these discussions at home. But I'm here speaking on my own behalf and having a conversation in my own right, which is something us women are actually allowed to do.

Lighting a candle out there for all of the handmaid ‘not all men’ gang

They still treat you like shit and they don’t like you any better

Glad you are out there fighting their fight though they aren’t doing that for you

@Suprima

Lighting a candle out there for all of the handmaid ‘not all men’ gang

They still treat you like shit and they don’t like you any better

Glad you are out there fighting their fight though they aren’t doing that for you

Nobody’s treating me like shit, but generalise away if you want 🤷‍♀️

honestly I'd just stop replying to that one.
Oh great, "that one". How dehumanising. I hope it's okay when a man calls you "that one". He can't be a misogynist or else you're calling yourself one too.

Hypocrite.

I think the problem with the PPs saying report it or tell her , they will just say they meant it in a different way, or it was a joke etc etc
That's the sort of thing I'm sick of , the everyday tiny things where there is very little you can do. I'm probably about to get more replies on here telling me I heard it wrong, I should report (even though we all know that would be futile) but again, these are my responsibilities to bear. Not the men who were gross to begin with

They don't need to be given the opportunity to say anything. Talk to the dance school owner. You don't have to name names. She can let her teachers know and send out a general message to parents if she wishes.

Yes, of course it would be better if no-one was ever bad. But they are and it is important that when they are, other people pick them up on it and/or deal with it.

@Recessed

I've come to the conclusion that most men are creepy to varying degrees. I don't care for the NAMALT crowd at all as I think this discourse just shields the real issue - that men are to blame for most of the world's problems. More education targeted towards males is really needed, as women generally don't need lessons in how not to be a pervert.

Sadly I agree with you. I have sons and I reaaallllyyy hope that all my feministing hasn’t had the opposite effect and pushed them into the loving arms of the NAMALTers.

My DP is nothing but kind and respectful of me these days but I remember his boss at a work function said to me “you should hear how he talks about women when he’s at work” with a big guffaw. I would have taken it more seriously had the boss not been a well known shagger and probably covering his own arse as well, and my DP does have a questionable sense of humour. But it has made me uneasy about the different sides to men tbh.

So many women on here who work in male dominated industries and get to see what they’re like when they think there’s no women around. There’s something very wrong with men. Not every one of them, but too many of them for it to be a coincidence.

Nor is the coach likely to worry that one day he might find himself alone with one of them and that should they decide to assault him he couldn't fight them off.
Or that they might wait for him in the car park in the dark.
Or follow him home.
Or rape him.
Or murder him.
Because typically men don't need to worry that female attention, even when unwelcome, might place them in danger.

Absolutely spot on - this is why the whole “women do it too” shtick is so pointless - it’s nothing like the same thing.

When 3 men a week are murdered by women, and when women commit 85% if all violent crime and 98% of all sexual assaults - or let’s be generous here and settle for 50/50 - then we’ll have the discussion about how women are just as bad as men.

@OneTC

Definitely not an ALM person

White people are racist - yes, the extent of which is debatable

White women oppress other women of ethnic minorities - yes, I believe that people, women and men are prone to abuse the power they have

In these conversations there are very few incidents in which people state the (all) part, yeah you can find them, but like violent incidents committed by women they are like hens teeth amongst the posts that simply and correctly refer to men as a class. "People" who rape have something particular in common, does that statement not bear out?

I wish more people would openly state their positions like this. Just be open about it, you hate white people, you support the genocide of white race. Just own it. That's who you are, don't hide behind some BLM narrative.

I was listening to some man say how fed up he was of women just yesterday, at work. Weirdly enough no other group is allowed to be spoken of in public like that, let alone in a work environment. You can't even say it about the group that commits 99% of all sexual crimes on a women's website, named for mothers, without getting jumped on.

And needless to say, the man who said that was not challenged, nor was he about to declare celibacy. His complaint, as usual, was that a woman had dared to say no.

Why wasn't he challenged? You were there, why didn't you say anything? Who else were you expecting to challenge him?

You can't even say it about the group that commits 99% of all sexual crimes on a women's website, named for mothers, without getting jumped on.
And this is another disingenuous post. I don't see posters descending on all the threads on MN about what men are doing, telling women to stop. No one has told women to stop talking about women's issues on this thread either. If you can't separate what's been said from that, then that's how you want to see it. It should be an easy concept to understand but it's been dragged longer than necessary.

@OuiOuiBonjour

It's the level of disgust really, that I felt at him, that was the worst rather than the scary aspect of it. I didn't encounter him through dance or as a teenager but he'd gone out of his way to have pictures of me in an old childhood hobby for "his personal use". And then knowing his boys were being raised by someone like him (they would make inappropriately flirty comments or "moves" like a wink or a "kerching! get in their lad!" which they'd clearly observed or been taught) and that his wife, instead of calling him out, was rude to me (and presumably any younger woman he tried it on with).

And then of course he became a pastor. With access to lots of, often quite vulnerable women and girls.

I encountered him at a wedding he concelebrated (he was invited to the reception) a couple of years ago and he was still perving after me and trying to listen in on conversations with other guests about my new workplace and hobbies no matter how I tried to avoid him like the plague.

I'm sure he'll never be on a register or actually physically do anything illegal. He'll just have a good wank in private to perfectly legal images and people will excuse his "risque" sense of humour. And he's not the only one out there. That's the actual scary part.

Did you report his behaviour to your boss at school

All right. I did challenge it, after a short delay. The men in the group did not. Sexism is quite common in this workplace. Needless to say there were then comments about my comment, most of which boiled down to women have to be nice and STFU.

Jumping on threads that complain about the violence men do on this website is so common that we have a meme about it, or did you not notice the comments about post no 1 on this thread??

Ooh, the pic posted! Sorry, the pic wasn't actually aimed at you SJ, although I expect you'll struggle to believe that. It's one that I used to see on here once upon a time and the damn thing wasn't posting separately.

@PickUpAPepper

I was listening to some man say how fed up he was of women just yesterday, at work. Weirdly enough no other group is allowed to be spoken of in public like that, let alone in a work environment. You can't even say it about the group that commits 99% of all sexual crimes on a women's website, named for mothers, without getting jumped on.

And needless to say, the man who said that was not challenged, nor was he about to declare celibacy. His complaint, as usual, was that a woman had dared to say no.

What if the members of one particular group committed the majority of terrorist offences? Would it be OK to make a generalisation about the group?

As in starting a thread titled 'to be just sick.of...'

and then blame the members of that group who are not involved for not policing those who are?