To have had enough of sex?!

[PandaEyed13]

Back story: Sex! Me and hubby started out the way most young people do - couldn't get enough! Day, night and anything in-between!

Present day: It's 11 years, 2 children, a house to run and 2 full time jobs later! I'm knackered, I really am! The old libido isn't what it used to be and it's because of a mix of things really - I had a difficult birth with my 2nd baby 4 years ago, I had a forceps delivery and an episiotomy, there was a lot of stitches, a long healing time and a lot of scar tissue, sex has only just started to stop feeling tender down there over the last year. Plus I'm older, a bit creakier, a teeny bit heavier, a lot sleepier and juggling a few different roles; I'm wife, mum, employee, carer as our youngest has special needs, cook, cleaner and so many others that the role of minx just doesn't feel like it's really me anymore - and I'm ok with it! The problem isn't the actual act itself, it's not boring or flat when we do it, it's great! The bottom line on the topic really is that I just don't need it as much anymore, I don't get as much as I used to get from it when I was 23 and to be honest..as bad as it sounds..once a month would suit me down to the ground!
However, DH would have it every night if he could, his own drive is much higher. So I do try! Nowadays, it's twice a week. That's not the problem though, the problem is he pesters every night. Literally every night, as soon as the kids have gone to bed, while I'm sat there on the couch watching TV at 8:30pm, it starts! Every night.
He sulks like a child and refuses to talk to me for the rest of the night on the ones that I say "not tonight dear." I do not over exaggerate, he does not talk to me until well into the next day!
He refuses to take matters into his own hands (excuse the pun), as in, he will not 'self love' if you know what I mean, because apparently that is my job! He says it's naff and that it's like hoping for a takeaway pizza and having to settle for cheese on toast!
Any time a saucy scene comes on the TV he huffs and makes some sarky remark like "hmm wonder what that's like!" or "I wouldn't know mate!" I spend most evenings getting ignored, getting the cold shoulder and alone, as he stomps off to sit in the other room and sulk.
I'm beginning to become resentful. I'm finding myself relenting and doing it anyway on times when I really just don't want to. I don't think any of the way he acts towards me in these moments of what he believes to be rejection is acceptable. I feel like we're constantly walking shaky ground that wobbles between emotional blackmail and sexual harassment! He doesn't talk to anyone about these things, he tells nobody because apparently this just isn't the sort of thing mates talk about, so I feel like there's nobody to say to him, "best not treat her like shit because you didn't get it, that's straddling a line there mate/love/dear!" I'm the only one who ever tells him it's not OK to act this way because you didn't get some, but he obviously just thinks I'm talking crap as I'm the one on the opposing side of his argument and calls me a boring old housemaid!
In less charged moments, we have talked and I have been totally honest about how I feel about it all personally. I've openly explained I just don't have as high a drive as him anymore and told him my reasons, but promised to make more effort to meet his needs if he felt like physical connection is a more important part of the relationship to him. And I do, as I say - twice a week is me reeeaaally giving it my all. He in return vows to lay off a bit more and to possibly see to himself on occasions, because in these less charged moments of daylight clarity, he does feel mortified at how his behaviour looks towards me when he gets like he does. But the next day, as soon as the kids have gone up, it's all forgotten again and it's back to the mithering for it like a teenage boy and sulking and freezing me out and slamming drawers and doors!
In every other aspect of life and our relationship he's brill. Great dad, good laugh, works hard, my family and friends love him, pulls his weight round the house. We're the absolute best of friends and we adore being with each other, we'd be together every minute if we could. I have no trust issues or worry and have 100% confidence that his head will never be turned or that he'll go looking elsewhere! But there's this private problem that is threatening to swallow everything else up and I honestly do believe that it would eventually be a relationship ender some day down the line should things continue the way they are, because I'm at my limit! I don't want to feel pressured/cajoled/bullied into doing the deed when I don't want to anymore! I'm starting to ask myself difficult questions about the acceptability of his behaviour and whether or not I'm experiencing some form of manipulation!
And I know I'm lucky to still have my partner want and desire me so much after all these years, I do factor that in but it's started to become a question of "does he want ME or does he just want IT?" Especially the last couple of years, he's always had a high sex drive but it's been something else over the last couple of years, it's become next level desperation almost!
I guess what I think at this point is that if he still has a sky high drive, and I don't, and I'm trying, but he still has a daily need - he should go take a long shower! I don't think I should be 100% responsible for his sexual satisfaction. Seriously, just back off and go have 10 minutes to yourself! AIBU?

I've never altered my behaviour or stopped doing things for myself in case it gets him revved up. I wear makeup for me on the times I do wear it, and not for him by any means! I'm not going to stop doing that, but what I had to explain to him is that he MUST stop assuming he's entitled for THAT night to be the night, just because I've got the slap on and a blow dry! The last time I did full face was a couple of weeks ago, we had some visiting friends stay over and we were all going to a house warming gathering, and my husband was grumbling "You've got all your face on and you're not going to want to do it tonight because we've got X and Y stopping over! It's not fair!"
And I promise you I told him "You're damn right! Tough shit, grow up!"

I have shared a little with my sister-in-law a bit about the problems we're having, she is married to OH's brother and she cracked a joke first on a girls night about him wanting nookie all the time and it being a bit of an eye rolling nightmare, so I tested the water a little as she brought it up first and said that my own OH, his brother, is the same and he's a bad sulk and a bit of a dick if he doesn't get it and she agreed hers does have a sex drive that's hard to match too and he can be a bit overly touchy feely sometimes, but he doesn't sulk if he doesn't get it. I did kind of reel it back in after that.

@secretsad

This is less about sex and more about your relationship and it sounds like you either go back to the start and really work on it, or you split.

I live and adore my partner. I want sex with him because I enjoy the closeness and intimacy. I was in a dead end marriage then met my soulmate. Sometimes my body doesn't want sex, sometimes his doesn't, god we have real life to deal with! But you need to nurture the intimacy the best you can in other ways.

Your DH is getting it wrong. My partner might say 'do you want to go to bed?'- I always say yes but if I didn't we would just do something else like a jigsaw 🙂 he would also give me massages and expect nothing else. Abs I would do the same for him- we give because we love each other. Oh, I'm 33 weeks pregnant too with baby #5 and nothing has changed, we were still 69ing yesterday afternoon

You need to think wether you want to be with him and be close to him again. And then if you do you both need to sit down and talk about it and be kind to each other. Or you need to leave.

Why would you come onto a thread about a woman being coerced into sex and boast about your sex life??

It boils down to sex being the only thing that makes him happy, or at the very least forget everything

I don't know where to start with this but it seems to me that this is just more manipulation, if you love me you should want to give me the only thing in the whole world that makes me happy. It's infuriating, childish and so so disrespectful to you as a whole person.
The sidling up and the language he uses to butter you up for later is beyond creepy, he's like a teenager trying to cop a feel and his seduction technique is laughably bad. He can't possibly think that every touch or kiss in an established relationship is going to lead to sex, does he not know about affection and how the two things are different?

So he sulks for 5 nights a week, and well into the following day because he's not getting enough sex. I couldn't live like that op, it's awful

My ex was exactly like this. Sex was the be all and end off of everything for him. He once didn't talk to me for a whole week whilst we were on a weeks holiday in Ibiza because I was poorly and had to take antibiotics. Why did he sulk? Because my pill didn't work due to the tablets and he refused to wear conforms or pull out.

He's abusing you op. Emotionally and sexually. He's not a nice man.

I think a lot of men are like this man. Sex is mixed up with all sorts of other issues. I think you are handling this really well OP.
I do think he needs individual counselling from someone who specialises in sexual addiction. A year is far too long to wait. CBT is of very limited value. He needs proper therapy to get to the bottom of what this is about .

It is sexual harassment see if he would be comfortable telling people this is how he behaves if he doesnt get sex. If a man treats his daughter like that in future if she wont sleep with him. I personally would come down hard and say for every day he sulks when you say no that is an extra say that you will definitely not have sex and if he doesnt stop you will be talking to your family and friends about whether they consider him a sex pest.

It's good you've spoken. Although I think he's been quite manipulative actually.

I think the issue here is that he's under developed, childish and impulsive. The sulking is utterly ridiculous and he's taken on a child role in the family. It's interesting his brother is the same.

I would recommend some counselling for yourself, perhaps women's aid, because you're going to need help to deal with his constant boundary pushing and manipulation.

he's always been a sulky man child

Respect to you OP for having the conversation and for attempting to find a solution. It does seem as if he has had a hard time recently at work.

However...

I'm afraid that I think that it is a mistake to pin hopes on CBT or anything else outside himself, to solve the essential problem is that, in your words, he is behaving like a sulky man child.

He relies on PIV intercourse as his only source of self esteem. He imagines that a friendly squeeze of his bum is an irrevocable promise to have at the earliest possible opportunity.

The solution IMO is not for you to yes, alter your behaviour by not giving him any affection because he twists it to his own advantage. Yet another aspect of your life together where his wants trump any thought of your needs for love and affection.

The solution is for him to accept that his sulking behaviour is wrong and that he needs to accept responsibility and yes, stop it. If he could accept this, you could support him by finding a word or phrase to remind him of he falls back into sulking, to snap out of it.

He is the only person whose behaviour need to change. Taking responsibility for that would, of course, provide a positive spiral. He could then also start to see and be grateful for all the good things in his life, starting with his wife and children.

There may well be many men who get stuck where he is stuck. You really only need one, him, to get that this is not acceptable and respond differently.

You deserve a partner, who can make your life better. With whom you can have a harmless flirtation without him thinking that you are in a promise. Not one where you have to shut down all affection for fear of disturbing the beast within him.

That is so not fair and is even enshrined in law that consent shall be actively sought and not assumed, and that even once given, can be withdrawn at any time.

---

Your role as a mother should be very different to that of his partner / wife. In the hurly burly of everyday life, it is very easy for the boundaries to get blurred, so that you start to manage his behaviour in the same way as you manage that if your DC.

Doesn't make it right.

He needs to take responsibility for his role by, well, taking responsibility for his behaviour.

Please have another conversation with him, giving him the space to tell you what he is going to do himself. Good luck.

While you are waiting for the CBT, can you work on him finding something else that makes him happy?

Its tricky because it sounds like it is stemming from anxiety and the sex is a "numbing behaviour" for him - you dont want him to replace it with another one that is less healthy (drugs/gaming/alcohol) but how would he feel about trying some new activities to help. Exercise is very good as it releases endorphins.

I would also suggest you both read up a little on anxiety and numbing/avoidant behaviours. Some knowledge here might be useful and the two of you can also talk about what he thinks is triggering his anxiety. If you can work that out, then research exposure therapies - that might actually get to the roots of the problem.

I'm sorry I don't buy the explanation that he's damaged and uses sex as a coping mechanism or whatever.

He's manipulative and coercing and he uses different methods to get you to have sex with him. The more general behaviour of sulking which you mention in one of your posts is just abusive and controlling. It isn't because he's a manchild, it's because he's unpleasant and possibly abusive. And he's managed to convince you that you need to change your behaviour to help him, when this isn't down to you.

And what @FinallyHere says so eloquently too.

@FinallyHere

he's always been a sulky man child

Respect to you OP for having the conversation and for attempting to find a solution. It does seem as if he has had a hard time recently at work.

However...

I'm afraid that I think that it is a mistake to pin hopes on CBT or anything else outside himself, to solve the essential problem is that, in your words, he is behaving like a sulky man child.

He relies on PIV intercourse as his only source of self esteem. He imagines that a friendly squeeze of his bum is an irrevocable promise to have at the earliest possible opportunity.

The solution IMO is not for you to yes, alter your behaviour by not giving him any affection because he twists it to his own advantage. Yet another aspect of your life together where his wants trump any thought of your needs for love and affection.

The solution is for him to accept that his sulking behaviour is wrong and that he needs to accept responsibility and yes, stop it. If he could accept this, you could support him by finding a word or phrase to remind him of he falls back into sulking, to snap out of it.

He is the only person whose behaviour need to change. Taking responsibility for that would, of course, provide a positive spiral. He could then also start to see and be grateful for all the good things in his life, starting with his wife and children.

There may well be many men who get stuck where he is stuck. You really only need one, him, to get that this is not acceptable and respond differently.

You deserve a partner, who can make your life better. With whom you can have a harmless flirtation without him thinking that you are in a promise. Not one where you have to shut down all affection for fear of disturbing the beast within him.

That is so not fair and is even enshrined in law that consent shall be actively sought and not assumed, and that even once given, can be withdrawn at any time.

---

Your role as a mother should be very different to that of his partner / wife. In the hurly burly of everyday life, it is very easy for the boundaries to get blurred, so that you start to manage his behaviour in the same way as you manage that if your DC.

Doesn't make it right.

He needs to take responsibility for his role by, well, taking responsibility for his behaviour.

Please have another conversation with him, giving him the space to tell you what he is going to do himself. Good luck.

this is great ... 🌸

my husband was grumbling "You've got all your face on and you're not going to want to do it tonight because we've got X and Y stopping over! It's not fair!"

does he see you as anything other than a recepticle for his penis? You look nice so he gets sex? you flirt so he gets sex? The normal response of a man seeing his wife dressed up is "you look great love" not a moan that he won't get his bit later. he is exactly the kind of man who thinks a woman wearing a short skirt or a bit of makeup or smiling at him is an invitation to have sex - there is a worse name for that.

Good luck, OP. I know you love him and like bits of your life together but he is all sorts of fucked up imo. He is using sex like others use alcohol - to numb how he feels. And he seems to have no concept at all of you as a unique human being with needs/wants/independent life who isn't simply there to service his sexual needs. I think it is going to need more than cbt to deal with that.

While you are waiting for the CBT, can you work on him finding something else that makes him happy?

Your husband's behaviour is not your responsibility. He should find something else that makes him happy, or therapy, or whatever he needs.
But he needs to allow you to make yourself happy, rather than the opposite.

I myself apologised for the times that I have made him believe it could be on the cards and then shut it down later because I was trying to shut him up at the time.

OMG. Why did you do that?
It's a coping mechanism for his harassment.
He should apologise for pressuring you.

Also, don't apologise for flirting, FGS.
That's normal in a relationship. As is cuddling, a random kiss, a touch, whatever.

He's holding you responsible for his extremely poor behaviour and that is not on.

OP,

Well done for speaking plainly to him, as plainly as you felt comfortable.

He is going to have to grow the hell up though, because you are absolutely no time away from the full on ICK and him making your skin crawl and then your focus will be on getting the hell out of your marriage.

This is the truth.

You will not be able to stomach him and his truly awful behaviour 5 nights a week.

Most women would rather sign up for celibacy, rather than live the life you are leading.

However you do it, he needs to realise this will move in to deal breaker territory.

You sound like a great woman, very tolerant.
I hope he gets what he is risking losing by his extremely immature, unattractive behaviour.

Your update has really made me wonder what his house was like growing up? It's not a nice thought either.

I’d be asking him how he can enjoy sex with you knowing that you didn’t want to have it but are making yourself. It’s absolutely disgusting behaviour. He knows that if he sulks, he gets sex: I think he needs to have a good inward look at himself and ask himself why he feels entitled to you on his terms. He also need to question what he understands to be ‘consent’, because if someone says no and you have to threaten / sulk / manipulate them to make them have sex that they don’t want, then I’m not seeing a big jump from that to raping a woman who also doesn’t want to have sex. Both involve men deciding that you’ll give them sex whether you want to or not. It needs to stop, OP. It’s horrible.

Sorry op, I did click to read all your posts (or thought I did) but I missed the one where you said you did enjoy it in the end, so ignore that but if my previous post!

*bit of

I’m not doing very well here tonight, am I!

If it is a genetic familial thing then you can't fix it and he cant either so you really need to rethink your future. With viagra around you have a long way to go.
As mentioned above you wonder what the home life was like for him growing up.
Was his mother domineering so they (he and his DB) are kicking back - could he have been sexually abused?
DH was a bit like this - thankfully he worked away ALOt.

I'm sorry I don't buy the explanation that he's damaged and uses sex as a coping mechanism or whatever.

He's manipulative and coercing and he uses different methods to get you to have sex with him.

💯 this.

I felt so sad reading your account of your conversation. Prior to that post I thought possibly it was extreme unawareness on his part - although it seemed you had been quite clear.

His 'poor me' account of not being furloughed (I mean so what?! Many of us weren't furloughed. He should have been damn glad to have a salary & job when so many didn't. The 'binge Netflix' comment was pure immaturity) leading to being depressed & sex as a salve is utterly pathetic & unbelievably manipulative.

An entirely different situation but my ex used his 'depression' as an excuse for utterly dreadful abusive behaviour that I not only excused, but didn't recognise as such, because he was 'depressed'. In truth he'd had a depressive episode, treated with medication, but thereafter was perfectly able to function & behave as a cogent adult. But he used it abhorrently to check out of his responsibilities as a parent & husband.

The description of him approaching you when chopping onions and you having signalled that you were up for sex later ... there are no words.

He is really doing a number on you. He's blamed this situation on being depressed, and on you, giving him mixed signals.

It's all rubbish but it's also a form of abuse. You are second guessing yourself. You now get no say in the dynamic of your relationship, including sex (now 'no flirting' rule, wtf?). It has become all about him, his mental state, his needs...and now, CBT is the only solution and he has to wait a year.

Absolute bullshit. For a start, I don't see how CBT would help here. Secondly being a caring respectful human is not made impossible if you have depression.

He has utterly manipulated you OP, to the point where you think he's a good man & husband. He is not.

My only advice now is to get some counselling for yourself, to work out how you feel and what to do now. 💐

I myself apologised for the times that I have made him believe it could be on the cards and then shut it down later because I was trying to shut him up at the time.

No. No No no no. No. None of this is your fault AT ALL.

You could be in the middle of sex and if you change your mind and want to stop, sex should stop, no questions asked. You haven't booked a sex session in just because you said you might a few hours before.

You have nothing to apologise for - and I have been in both positions where I had sex I didn't want to make the pestering /sulking stop. I am now in a sexless relationship with my husband - his choice. It did do a number on my self esteem and its hard to get over but like I felt forced into sex - I would not do it to someone else.

I have a fairly low sex drive and my relationship genuinely is fantastic apart from no sex so I decided to stay and live my life like this. My other choice is to leave.

I do NOT have the right to sulk, cajole, bully, persuade, punish, withdraw affection, slam doors, or ignore my partner to get what I want (not that I would anyway - maybe because I know how it feels).

The only way it stopped for me was by leaving those bad relationships, I don't think people like this ever change. Even when you told him how you feel he had 101 reasons why its not his fault from his work situation to you being sexy and leading him on.

I can't tell you what to do OP but twice a week of giving in sex is too often in my book.

^*Have you tried the shock factor?
"You want sex with me right now, yes?"
"Yes"
"I don't want sex with you right now ... Would you still like me to have sex with you?"
He either goes yes.. in which case you say "would you like to rape me now, because that's what you're asking to do"
Or he says no, but sulks in which case you say "you sulking is co-ercion. If you sulk, and I say yes to stop you sulking, that's me having sex I didn't want to have - would you like to rape me?"

Co-erced consent is not consent. Men need to know this.*^

100% this. Once more for the people at the back, please.
You don't need anyone here to tell you this OP, you already know it - your husband has no rights to your body but the huffing suggests he believes he does and that's not ever ok. I get this must be so hard but please try and take a stand now or you are forever in a position where he thinks he is entitled.

What have I just read!?!?! This isn’t living. Jeez your husband needs to seriously change his behaviour and mentality or go.