To have had enough of sex?!

[PandaEyed13]

Back story: Sex! Me and hubby started out the way most young people do - couldn't get enough! Day, night and anything in-between!

Present day: It's 11 years, 2 children, a house to run and 2 full time jobs later! I'm knackered, I really am! The old libido isn't what it used to be and it's because of a mix of things really - I had a difficult birth with my 2nd baby 4 years ago, I had a forceps delivery and an episiotomy, there was a lot of stitches, a long healing time and a lot of scar tissue, sex has only just started to stop feeling tender down there over the last year. Plus I'm older, a bit creakier, a teeny bit heavier, a lot sleepier and juggling a few different roles; I'm wife, mum, employee, carer as our youngest has special needs, cook, cleaner and so many others that the role of minx just doesn't feel like it's really me anymore - and I'm ok with it! The problem isn't the actual act itself, it's not boring or flat when we do it, it's great! The bottom line on the topic really is that I just don't need it as much anymore, I don't get as much as I used to get from it when I was 23 and to be honest..as bad as it sounds..once a month would suit me down to the ground!
However, DH would have it every night if he could, his own drive is much higher. So I do try! Nowadays, it's twice a week. That's not the problem though, the problem is he pesters every night. Literally every night, as soon as the kids have gone to bed, while I'm sat there on the couch watching TV at 8:30pm, it starts! Every night.
He sulks like a child and refuses to talk to me for the rest of the night on the ones that I say "not tonight dear." I do not over exaggerate, he does not talk to me until well into the next day!
He refuses to take matters into his own hands (excuse the pun), as in, he will not 'self love' if you know what I mean, because apparently that is my job! He says it's naff and that it's like hoping for a takeaway pizza and having to settle for cheese on toast!
Any time a saucy scene comes on the TV he huffs and makes some sarky remark like "hmm wonder what that's like!" or "I wouldn't know mate!" I spend most evenings getting ignored, getting the cold shoulder and alone, as he stomps off to sit in the other room and sulk.
I'm beginning to become resentful. I'm finding myself relenting and doing it anyway on times when I really just don't want to. I don't think any of the way he acts towards me in these moments of what he believes to be rejection is acceptable. I feel like we're constantly walking shaky ground that wobbles between emotional blackmail and sexual harassment! He doesn't talk to anyone about these things, he tells nobody because apparently this just isn't the sort of thing mates talk about, so I feel like there's nobody to say to him, "best not treat her like shit because you didn't get it, that's straddling a line there mate/love/dear!" I'm the only one who ever tells him it's not OK to act this way because you didn't get some, but he obviously just thinks I'm talking crap as I'm the one on the opposing side of his argument and calls me a boring old housemaid!
In less charged moments, we have talked and I have been totally honest about how I feel about it all personally. I've openly explained I just don't have as high a drive as him anymore and told him my reasons, but promised to make more effort to meet his needs if he felt like physical connection is a more important part of the relationship to him. And I do, as I say - twice a week is me reeeaaally giving it my all. He in return vows to lay off a bit more and to possibly see to himself on occasions, because in these less charged moments of daylight clarity, he does feel mortified at how his behaviour looks towards me when he gets like he does. But the next day, as soon as the kids have gone up, it's all forgotten again and it's back to the mithering for it like a teenage boy and sulking and freezing me out and slamming drawers and doors!
In every other aspect of life and our relationship he's brill. Great dad, good laugh, works hard, my family and friends love him, pulls his weight round the house. We're the absolute best of friends and we adore being with each other, we'd be together every minute if we could. I have no trust issues or worry and have 100% confidence that his head will never be turned or that he'll go looking elsewhere! But there's this private problem that is threatening to swallow everything else up and I honestly do believe that it would eventually be a relationship ender some day down the line should things continue the way they are, because I'm at my limit! I don't want to feel pressured/cajoled/bullied into doing the deed when I don't want to anymore! I'm starting to ask myself difficult questions about the acceptability of his behaviour and whether or not I'm experiencing some form of manipulation!
And I know I'm lucky to still have my partner want and desire me so much after all these years, I do factor that in but it's started to become a question of "does he want ME or does he just want IT?" Especially the last couple of years, he's always had a high sex drive but it's been something else over the last couple of years, it's become next level desperation almost!
I guess what I think at this point is that if he still has a sky high drive, and I don't, and I'm trying, but he still has a daily need - he should go take a long shower! I don't think I should be 100% responsible for his sexual satisfaction. Seriously, just back off and go have 10 minutes to yourself! AIBU?

we were still 69ing yesterday afternoon

Retch

You sound like you are taking on the majority of the workload. If he helped out more, took the workload/ family life pressure off you and as well as this started to be nicer to you, maybe you would find your sex drive would return.

If none of this happens, your marriage is in trouble and you should start to think about your future options.

Honestly OP your post has made me feel sick on your behalf.

FYI if it’s grudgingly nagged into consent, it’s not consent and is heading towards rape. Unless you truly want sex, anything coerced is rape. Honestly, I feel utterly sick for you and don’t know how you can live like that.

@BreadPita

It sounds like twice a week of "duty sex" isn't doing the job for him. Sex is about more that mechanical release and it's easy to see what would be "missing" from his perspective, with your current setup. If masturbation was an adequate substitute for sex with a woman who is attracted to him, I imagine that's what he would stuck with in the first place. It's not a fault on either of your parts, you're just mismatched. It will work itself out with him either having a (hopefully discreet) affair or your relationship ending.

I agree with this. Other than he may learn to cope without resorting to either of the above options. I feel for you, I really do. Of course you shouldn’t be having sex if you don’t want to. That would feel awful. I also feel for your husband too though. Rejection is hurtful and frustrating. Perhaps he doesn’t speak for a while because he is so frustrated and worried about the future and can’t behave as normal.

Sadly, there is no easy answer to this situation. I wish you both well.

I'm a bit overwhelmed. Sometimes it's hard to see something when you're inside the situation. There's a lot of "abuse" and "rape" wording being used and I'm not diminishing posters concerns, it just honestly hasn't felt like that! It's felt like, well the norm really! My sulky overgrown kid of a husband, who's accelerated his need and desire over the past year or 2 to the point that I've wondered if he needs help! If something is going on with him, if there's a crisis inside for him that is actually unrelated to sex and to me?

I feel a bit sad. It's a shocking eye opener and has raised questions about my self worth. I always thought I was doing my bit to reach 50/50, despite knowing that he himself wasn't doing that too. I always thought it was important to factor in your partners needs and try and meet them halfway, to try and maintain that and not withdraw that because your own weren't being met. I honestly thought I was trying to do my bit to try. There's a lot I didn't realise what it's actually been about.

Bit knocked sideways.

Sulking is emotional abuse.Slamming doors is actually a type of violence. It's a recognised abuse tactic and bad enough on its own, the fact he does this to coerce you into sex is psycopathic and utterly repulsive. This man hates you.

How do you respond to the door slamming and silent treatment op? Do you kiss his arse so he doesn't wake your children?

This dirty bastard has been sexually and emotionally abusing you for so long you seem unable to see how utterly awful it is. This is evident in the way you refer to him as brill and your best friend.

Why are you putting up with this? Are you financially dependent on him?

Ex did this. Heavy emphasis on the ex.

Yuk. Even reading that gives me the gip, OP. He's gross. How can you fancy him when he's a great, sulky, emotional abusive baby? Eww.

My wonderful DH would give his nuts for twice a week. So would I, frankly, but we have a tween and 1&2 year olds and once a month feels like a dream at the moment. It'll go back, but time / energy / interest is just not there, and when one is, the other often isn't. It's normal when the kids are young to ebb and flow, but this pressure? Such a massive turn off, man baby sulking when he doesn't get his orgasm. I can't tell you how revolted that makes me feel. A normal DH doesn't treat a loved wife that way. They just don't.

Probably such a visceral reaction because my ex was like this. We didn't have enough sex, 3 x a week was virtually celibate, it wasn't ever good enough, I didn't make enough effort, we didn't do enough different stuff, I didn't do my hair first, or I listened out when the baby cried. I didn't want to go on top for a solid hour at midnight, or want to do it while the SC were awake in the next room. I didn't want to be woken an hour after I'd got the baby back to sleep at 3am whilst working full time. He saw that as a failed relationship. I saw a man who thought I had no value other than as a shag and found it hurtful and distasteful. Hence ex.

You've talked and talked and he still does it? Have you told him the thought of sex with someone who only values your vagina is a bit vomit inducing? That it's extremely hard to get worked up over a man who acts like a stroppy toddler?

To answer some of the comments about him being fantastic in the day and a sulking pest once the kids have gone up - yep. Absolutely! Like a switch has been flicked at 8:30ish!

And yet you have been so undermined by his behaviour that you are framing this as a PandaEyed problem, not a DH problem.

I understand what you mean by "like a switch has been flicked" but it's a curiously neutral & forgiving way of describing what is actually happening. Framing the 8:30pm behaviour change like this is minimising his responsibility for it. It's nothing something that is happening to him outside of his control - he is choosing to become an abusive, controlling sex pest at 8.30 every night.

It's often said on here - but worth restating - the only acceptable percentage of abuse in a relationship is 0%.
He's choosing to harangue & upset you every night from 8.30pm, & stonewalls you from then until the next day.
No amount of decent behaviour compensates for this.
Would you eat a sandwich that was 99% yummy, but contained 1% shit?
What you are tolerating here is about 66% of your evenings being made of shit (unless you put out).

Until you understand & accept the severity of how he treats you, you will be unable to convey it to him. You say counselling is expensive & you are right - but if sex is such a priority for him (& your right not to be sexually coerced should certainly be a priority) - he needs to also make counselling a priority.

You need expert help to open his eyes to how he is behaving, how every unwanted advance makes him less & less attractive, & how his pawing at you, sulking, door-slamming & actual abuse of his wife are not just counter-productive to his desire for more sex ... they are out of order in every sense.

He is more concerned with his dick than his own wife's feelings.
That is not a 'good husband in every way but this'.
It's a selfish & unattractive man who would rather coercively manipulate his wife into sex he has actively stated it is her job to provide, than learn how to chat her up, listen to her feelings, flirt with her, & turn her on through loving kindness.

What a stupid twat.

also feel for your husband too though. Rejection is hurtful and frustrating. Perhaps he doesn’t speak for a while because he is so frustrated and worried about the future and can’t behave as normal

What the fuck am I reading?? He's not being rejected. And even if he were that's no excuse.

You actually feel sorry for this prick?

@Mary1Mary

also feel for your husband too though. Rejection is hurtful and frustrating. Perhaps he doesn’t speak for a while because he is so frustrated and worried about the future and can’t behave as normal

What the fuck am I reading?? He's not being rejected. And even if he were that's no excuse.

You actually feel sorry for this prick?

it's shocking I agree... it lays the blame firmly on OP.. really disgusting

this sounds really really draining - knowing that your husband expects sex every night is just SO unsexy. Just because its a possibility doesn't make it a guarantee...

I know that you are worried about what will happen if you keep saying no but the situation can't continue. And if it only lasts 15 minutes every single time, I bet part of the problem is that sex for you has become predicable, the same 'moves' every time...again SO unsexy.

I had this too with my ex husband. Sex was expected of me (he would sulk if I said no) Sex was always the same (same length, same foreplay, same positions EVERYTHING) and even though sometimes I would get into it too, on the whole it became just another thing to 'tolerate' as part of my marriage.

What doing that did was give my ex a false sense of everything was good. When in reality I felt numb. I didn't feel loved or cherished or desired...even though he wanted to have sex, it didn't feel like it was loving, passionate or surprising or exciting. Or any of the things that good sex with him had felt like when we'd be shagging like rabbits for the first year or so.

Full on lives had happened since then and it just felt so empty. Like you OP I was shattered. I also lost myself - I didn't know what 'me' time was for a very long time.

In the end, deep down I didn't want to be near him - I didn't love him like I used to. The love died slowly and painfully over years. My sex drive died along with the love. We'd stopped kissing just for the joy of kissing, we didn't hold hands just because...every intimate thing in his mind would lead to sex. So I stopped wanting those things with him. Expectation became a guarantee that I would not want sex.

Looking back, I tried to fix it. We both did. But on our own we just couldn't see the others perspective. If I could go back and do things differently, I'd say to take sex off the table - both of you agree to. And instead focus on building intimacy.

This means being a couple with time set aside for you both to enjoy time together AND doing things for yourself, dating each other again, nice massages with no expectations of anything else, taking time to be cuddled in bed with no phones or other distractions, talking A LOT about sexy stuff - what you want to try, best times you've had including reminiscing, writing a 'fuck-it' list of stuff you both want to try, texting each other when you miss each other, just stuff that brings you closer, helps you laugh together... BUT this all takes talking, adult talking with huffing and puffing gone.

I wish you all the best OP - if you want to get through this, you both need to be ready to try.

I can't really understand why you think it's okay for him to sulk every night he doesn't have sex from 8.30pm? How do you put up him doing that 5 nights a week? Surely that feels abusive to you ?

So you are saying only two nights a week he's nice ?

He never wants to if I'm clearly not interested/not keen/not in the mood.

Hmmm, yeah. But what is he like the next night when you have made him wait. I bet you don't say no twice.

He's done really well OP, not only do you force yourself to have sex with him twice a week (and pretend to enjoy it), but you feel sorry for him and are blaming yourself the rest of the time. Well done him!

There's nothing wrong with him other than him being a bully. No one is entitled to sex. You said he's a sulky, overgrown kid. He isn't! He's a grown man who is choosing to behave like this. And he does it because it's working.

BUT this all takes talking, adult talking with huffing and puffing gone.

But it also requires the partners not to be exhausted. I would say that if OP is exhausted and he isn't, then somehow he isn't pulling his weight.

totally @Spiindoctor! In my case, I was and my ex wasn't. But I don't think levels of tiredness are always linked to who does what in the home. I still have all of the same tasks as I did when I was with my ex, however I do make time for me time now, I do feel loved and desired (by my now partner) and sex is never expected...hence why in my case my sex drive has come back - for a man who treats me so much better!

In the OPs case, she doesn't sound like she wants a new partner, just for her current one to understand what she needs for her sex drive to come back.

Only by working together can this work, otherwise they will move further and further away from love.

@QueenBee52
it's shocking I agree... it lays the blame firmly on OP.. really disgusting

No, the issue is two people with mutually exclusive wants. They are, understandably, both unhappy with their situation and, most likely, both displaying their unhappiness through some means.
A man isn't a demon for feeling sexual desire for his wife and feeling rejected when that desire isn't returned.
A woman isn't a demon for not feeling desire for her husband and not pretending otherwise.
Being unable to completely bury resentment and negative emotion arising from the above is completely human.

OP, others are addressing the emotional aspects, so I wont dive in there.

There is a physical aspect to this too. You said you are exhausted and your libido has dropped. Have you had a check up at the GP? Women often ignore their own health when busy caring for others. I think it would be good to rule out any underlying physical problems that are very common in women. Consider checking your
Thyroid levels (antibodies as well as TSH)
Iron and ferritin
Complete blood count
Vit B 12
Vit D

I wonder what would happen OP if said you didn’t feel like sex for 2 weeks, four, six… I appreciate the give and take part of course but this happens for many couples from time to time. How do you think he would behave towards you?

A man isn't a demon for feeling sexual desire for his wife and feeling rejected when that desire isn't returned.
A woman isn't a demon for not feeling desire for her husband and not pretending otherwise.

But she does pretend. She pretends twice a week. But he paws at her and sulks/stonewalls her when she says no on the other five nights. Anyone who thinks that’s acceptable behaviour in a relationship needs to re-assess their standards.

I always thought I was doing my bit to reach 50/50, despite knowing that he himself wasn't doing that too

Panda my dear, your previous update about you also feeling forced to fake delight in his advances, or get punished for it, just makes him worse - as PP have said, it doesn't show 'consideration' - it proves how manipulative he is. If he were actually considerate, he would be able to not have sex with you AND not punish you for it with the nightly stonewalling & slamming routine.

He may eventually agree to counselling. Especially if you feel confident enough to state that his behaviour has become so appalling that you do not feel up to having sex again with him, ever, until you have counselling about it.
The trouble with that is ... you already know that he's not doing his bit 50/50 with you to reach a comfortable compromise. So the danger is that he will view counselling solely as a vehicle to parade his own selfish view of how his sex life ought to be arranged. In other words, just another stick to beat you with. I would not be surprised if he imagines that counselling would be all about "fixing" his wife. I'd be very surprised if he views it as acknowledging his own faults & taking responsibility for them.

This is the man who agreed, in the cold & sober light of day, that he must stop pestering you for sex & punishing you for non-compliance. Yet that very evening - what did he do ...?

Unless he is prepared to make an open-hearted admission of his faults, counselling will not work.
Unless he is prepared to work on the fact that arranging your family life in a more equitable way, taking more of the domestic load to lighten yours, committing to date nights or fun activities with you & actually learning to cherish & chat up his own wife - counselling will not work.

The way he is behaving now makes me think that he would take a very shallow & transactional view of counselling. He'd see it as being a negotiation about how many nights a week he "gets" sex - & that is not going to work for you. He needs to realise counselling willl entail him listening very hard to the valid reasons you want less sex these days, & how his behaviour is actively contributing to your lack of desire.

So it depends what you think he's capable of.
Perhaps the stance you could take would be "if you sulk & stonewall & slam this evening, I will be reconsidering our marriage".
Because it's NOT ABOUT HOW MANY TIMES YOU HAVE SEX.
It's about his entitlement, coercion, manipulation, & desire to make you feel so bad that he'll get his own way.
Unless he's prepared to admit that, your marriage is either over - or one you will grudgingly stay in while he whittles away ever more of your self esteem with no regard to your feelings.

I am so sorry, all these PP's must be very hard for you to process.

BreadPita, of course a man isn't a demon for feeling sexual desire for his wife and feeling rejected when it doesn't happen. I don't think anyone on here has said otherwise!

What IS problematic is when the man's BEHAVIOUR after "rejection" (if that's an appropriate term for "not getting what you want every single time you demand it") is manipulative and coercive.

The wife is bending over backwards for her husband so much she's meeting him halfway by agreeing to have sex (and doing her best to get into it) twice a week. That's not exactly wholesale rejection!

the husband might in fact feel rejected, but it's up to him to examine his feelings and see if they're even justified, and to take responsibility for his BEHAVIOUR.

Jeez people are wilfully blind sometimes.

No, the issue is two people with mutually exclusive wants. They are, understandably, both unhappy with their situation

Just stop.

The problem here is that one of these two people is emotionally and sexually abusive. What he's doing is abusive and it's a crime. The law says so, the police say so and the courts say so.

He's not a demon for wanting sex, no. He IS A DEMON for coercing, sulking and slamming. There is no excuse. Ever.

The op does not need a medical checkup to facilitate her husbands unwanted fucking. And living in an atmosphere of silent treatment, door slamming and coercive sex is actually pretty exhausting.

I’ve no advice OP but wanted to add you’re not alone. I could have written your post . Luckily I think DP is understanding more since I had a serious chat with him about it.