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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think becoming a first time mother in your 60s is the height of selfishness?

495 replies

CounsellorTroi · 19/09/2021 09:33

www.vogue.co.uk/arts-and-lifestyle/article/julia-peyton-jones

Had a baby alone at 64. She’ll be 80 years old when her daughter is 16. There’s a good chance she’ll be dead by the time the child is 30. She could well die before the child reaches 25. So very selfish.

OP posts:
IceLace100 · 20/09/2021 00:08

Yes I was aware of that.

You're argument is still a false equivalence.

HermioneKipper · 20/09/2021 00:08

@Happymum12345

Life does not come with guarantees. Who knows when you’re going to die? She may life to 100 and be perfectly happy & healthy. I know a beautiful young mum who died very young and the grandmother is helping the raise the children. Be kind.
Er yes but that’s hardly the ideal scenario is it?

The mother you mentioned is extremely unlucky. Much more likely that the grandmother would die before the mother in most situations.

Why would you actively choose to have a newborn in your 60s? It’s madness. Women are not meant to have babies at this age. It’s why she needed to buy another woman’s body to achieve her selfish goal

HermioneKipper · 20/09/2021 00:11

@IceLace100

Yes I was aware of that.

You're argument is still a false equivalence.

Then the risks equated to a “normal” pregnancy would be much, much higher so you can hardly say that having a baby for someone else isn’t dangerous can you?

And what about the baby? Immediately taken from the only mother it’s ever know and given to someone it doesn’t know from Adam.

Have you had children? Do you know how a woman’s body responds to our baby? Do you know how the baby responds?

My husband is wonderful and so hands on with our children. But I was the only one who could calm them for weeks after Id given birth. Have you heard of the 4th trimester? Taking a newborn from its mother is plain cruel

UrbanRambler · 20/09/2021 00:14

YANBU to say it's sellfish, but YANBU to say it's "the height of selfishness". Humans do far worse things, IMO.

I think it's wrong to bring a baby into the world knowing that your health may well fail before the child is an adult, and that the child could end up saddled with caring responsibilities before they have had a chance to experience the wider world as an adult. I feel that fertility clinics should not be encouraging any woman over 50 to have a baby via fertility treatment, and that 55 should be the absolute cut off point.

UrbanRambler · 20/09/2021 00:17

Sorry, my second YANBU should read YABU, as I think it is not the "height of selfishness", although it is selfish.

Limejuiceandrum · 20/09/2021 00:17

@HermioneKipper
Oh get over yourself. You sound like sound crazy pro life mentalist
Torn - dads don’t have a real bond.
Emotive bullshit and even I don’t really believe in surrogacy, in certain ways.

It’s pretty obvious that her sister was the surrogate.

Limejuiceandrum · 20/09/2021 00:21

@UrbanRambler
Why 55?
Life expectancy is rising all the time, 50 years ago someone would have said no older than 35 as life expectancy was much lower.
These are feeble arguments, which perpetuate the misogyny that is rife, because if it wasn’t rife many many women wouldn’t have children with much older men and see it as ok.

85% of women on this thread think it’s despicable, or which I am pretty sure quite a few have children with older men.

HermioneKipper · 20/09/2021 00:29

[quote Limejuiceandrum]@HermioneKipper
Oh get over yourself. You sound like sound crazy pro life mentalist
Torn - dads don’t have a real bond.
Emotive bullshit and even I don’t really believe in surrogacy, in certain ways.

It’s pretty obvious that her sister was the surrogate.[/quote]
Ha interesting you should say that when I’m absolutely pro abortion if that’s what a woman chooses.

Paying someone to carry your baby is a totally different scenario and is illegal in many countries. I hope the UK is not far behind. It’s already illegal to pay people but loopholes like ‘expenses’ can be hugely exploited.

I expect many wealthy women/couples/gay men etc will go abroad to then get a surrogate and exploit women where it is easier to do so. Likely young, poor women of colour. (Who may then be left holding the baby if it has disabilities or the commissioning person changes their mind. This has happened frequently - look it up)

And of course dads have a bond with their children. Just not right from the moment of birth. It must be build. With their mother, the bond is innate

EmeraldShamrock · 20/09/2021 00:31

It's pretty obvious that her sister was the surrogate.
Is it? How old is the sister? Not many 64 year olds have a sister of child bearing age and if they did I'd highly doubt they would do it.
Surrogacy has been made glamorous by celebrities.
A baby bonds with the birth mother in the womb, people wouldn't take a newborn puppy away?

Limejuiceandrum · 20/09/2021 00:34

@HermioneKipper
The fact that you say the bond with a mother and baby is innate shows you know absolutely nothing about bonding. Or women. Or the many scientific research done on this subject.

Exploiting poor people is a whole other thing. And not for this thread. Seeing as absolutely no one knows the facts behind the birth. Unless you want to just spuriously gossip

ellyeth · 20/09/2021 00:34

I don't think it's great but why is there not so much outrage when men in their 60's and 70's have children?

IceLace100 · 20/09/2021 00:35

Then the risks equated to a “normal” pregnancy would be much, much higher so you can hardly say that having a baby for someone else isn’t dangerous can you?

If you read my post carefully, I have acknowledged there are some risks. I never said that there are no risks. Clearly there are risks in any pregnancy. What I am saying is that these risks are reasonable for a woman to accept. They aren't anywhere near as high as, say, donating a kidney, which was your previous, and rather poor, argument.

And what about the baby? Immediately taken from the only mother it’s ever know and given to someone it doesn’t know from Adam.

I agree there is sometimes trauma removing a baby from the birth mother. Again, I think given that the baby is likely going to parents that really really want it and have significant resources to care for the baby, I think the risk of trauma is acceptable. However, I agree there needs to be more research done in this area.

Have you had children? Do you know how a woman’s body responds to our baby? Do you know how the baby responds?

My husband is wonderful and so hands on with our children. But I was the only one who could calm them for weeks after Id given birth. Have you heard of the 4th trimester?

That's your experience, and that's fine. Other women have very different experiences, and certainly lots of women don't bond with their newborns. Either way it doesn't actually mean that surrogacy is wrong does it? There is no evidence that mothers of babies born by surrogacy take care of their babies poorly.

Taking a newborn from its mother is plain cruel
*
I'd disagree that the woman who gives birth is the mother. When a baby is adopted, the adoptive mother is the mother. We don't insist the birth mother is the mother, and adoptive mothers (rightly) get angry when they do.*

I also disagree that the baby is "taken". Everyone has agreed that the baby will be given over to the parents and brought up by them.

OhWhyNot · 20/09/2021 00:37

Of course it’s selfish

A case of I want so I shall have with no consideration for how this impacts a child’s life

Limejuiceandrum · 20/09/2021 00:38

EVERY CHILD BORN, IS BORN TO SELFISH MOTHER FUCKERS
That’s what having children is. It is NOT ALTRUISTIC

EmeraldShamrock · 20/09/2021 01:03

My husband is wonderful and so hands on with our children. But I was the only one who could calm them for weeks after Id given birth. Have you heard of the 4th trimester? You recognise the 4th trimester with your baby but deny a surrogate baby has a bond with their BM passed the exit.

EVERY CHILD BORN, IS BORN TO SELFISH MOTHER FUCKERS
Would you prefer if the human race died out? It is a very bitter outlook on life.
Personally I love family and human relationships I'm delighted to be here born to an unselfish DM. Grin

Limejuiceandrum · 20/09/2021 01:13

@EmeraldShamrock
You know what. Yes I think it would probably be best for the planet that the human race died out. We aren’t doing that great a job so far,

Seesawmummadaw · 20/09/2021 02:37

Bloody hell. I read that article in awe of her, she sounds amazing.
I’m shocked that someone read that and felt anger.

UrbanRambler · 20/09/2021 03:33

@Limejuiceandrumm 55, because when the child reaches adulthood the mother would be in her mid 70s, which is a stage of life where many people start to develop health problems and lean on their adult children for support. People are living longer, but not necessarily living an independent, happy life through those extra years that previous generations often did not have.

I don't know what to think about men in their 60s and 70s having children with young women. For many reasons it's not ideal, and it seems wrong when rich men in their 70s marry women young enough to be their granddaughter, then have children, but at least the mother would be young enough to raise the child to adulthood. Anyway, perhaps that topic needs a thread of its own.

Matilda82 · 20/09/2021 04:33

It's grotesque and selfish.

LimitIsUp · 20/09/2021 05:26

@AtlasPine

Plenty of men do parenthood at that age.
Yep, and that's not right either
Idyllic · 20/09/2021 05:39

I think it’s inherently selfish to become a mother at 64, regardless how healthy/ energetic/ wealthy they may be.

I don’t agree with surrogacy as it’s generally a case of the wealthy exploiting a woman from a poorer background.

A poster up thread mentioned puppies - it’s illegal to take a pup from its mother before 8 weeks of age yet it’s ok to take a newborn baby just so an older woman can be a parent? Wrong on all sorts of levels. Agree with others who’ve compared it to a new acquisition.

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should

Idyllic · 20/09/2021 05:40

The same applies to men becoming fathers at that age too!

cocktailclub · 20/09/2021 06:24

As other posters have said lots of women (and men) drift into parenthood or rush into it. They decide having a baby with a new partner will be good for their relationship. They separate a few months later. They use drugs and alcohol and the baby has to go through withdrawing. They neglect the child. That's pretty selfish too. This is no worse.

Fetchthevet · 20/09/2021 07:09

My DH lost his mum at a very young age. Yes he feels sad sometimes that she never got to see him get married, or never met her grandchildren etc. But he doesn't sit around dwelling on it all day. He has a good, happy life and there's no reason why this girl won't have the same.

Fizbosshoes · 20/09/2021 07:19

I married my DH when he was early 40s. We had kids when he was mid-late 40s (I was late 20s/early 30s) He wanted more children but we agreed our cut off was 50. (Although at that point I was mid thirties)
I think I might have felt differently if the mother in the article had always wanted children or had tried unsuccessfully for years....but it literally seems like she only started considering it in her 60s.

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