To think becoming a first time mother in your 60s is the height of selfishness?

[CounsellorTroi]

www.vogue.co.uk/arts-and-lifestyle/article/julia-peyton-jones

Had a baby alone at 64. She’ll be 80 years old when her daughter is 16. There’s a good chance she’ll be dead by the time the child is 30. She could well die before the child reaches 25. So very selfish.

Well, people also pay for IVF babies. Does that disgust you?

Yes of course we are all right to be concerned with children’s welfare. But it’s one woman, and one child, not a societal ‘trend’ for 60+ motherhood, and she did, by all accounts, give a great deal of thought to it. Child is loved and wanted.

Oh do keep up. She used someone else’s body.

Alright love no need to be snippy

Why can't we stop judging women's choices then? Live and let live.

@milkyaqua

Well, people also pay for IVF babies. Does that disgust you?

No. As the mother grows the baby in her own womb and doesn’t have to give it up the minute it’s born. And likely isn’t in her 60s

@IceLace100

Oh do keep up. She used someone else’s body.

Alright love no need to be snippy

Why can't we stop judging women's choices then? Live and let live.

Women’s choices? Exploiting some other woman for her own gains. Yeah go right ahead

Yeah I actually don't think surrogacy is exploitative. Adults can make commercial decisions about their bodies.

Clearly going to be flamed on here but just wanted to put forward an alternative opinion that is also probably widely held by the majority of people.

Right, monetary involvement bad. Sociopathic parents, cool.

Old parents v. v. bad. Grandparents same age who by necessity take in junior offspring of their own drug-addicted, etc, offspring, also bad?

Surrogacy doesn’t exploit women? Just like prostitution doesn’t I suppose?

Do you see many wealthy white women doing it out of the goodness of their hearts?

Pregnancy and birth is one of the most dangerous things a woman can do. I myself have been left with life altering injuries as a result, that I’ll have for life, lost over 3 litres of blood during the birth of my twins and required a transfusion. Name me any wealthy, educated woman that would do this for a non family member without payment. I highly doubt you’d be able to.

The practices of the surrogacy industry in India and some parts of Eastern Europe are despicable. And if you think that doesn’t filter over to countries like the UK then you’re either extremely naive or an idiot

Yeah I actually don't think surrogacy is exploitative. Adults can make commercial decisions about their bodies.
Why do only poor women do it?
Desperation? Giving birth isn't easy, neither is egg stimulation, then there is the child, how will it impact on their mh.
Doing it out of love is different I'd have seriously considered it if my sisters needed it.

@milkyaqua

Right, monetary involvement bad. Sociopathic parents, cool.

Old parents v. v. bad. Grandparents same age who by necessity take in junior offspring of their own drug-addicted, etc, offspring, also bad?

How can you compare grandparents looking after their own grandchildren out of necessity with a woman in her 60s actually choosing to have a baby?! It’s in no way at all the same thing.

As you’ve put in your own post, it’s out of necessity. No one in their right mind would choose this or say it’s a good idea.

Just because things can be done doesn’t mean they should be

I don't think that any of the posters who disapprove of this particular parenting choice have said "I am only allowed to disapprove of one parenting choice, and have decided to go for this one - addicted/sociopathic/negligent/abusive parents are therefore absolutely fine by me"

Elderly kinship carers are the least worst option in many cases. For the same reason, people who disapprove of surrogacy because of the damage done by removing a baby from its mother don't necessarily disapprove of a newborn baby being removed from a mother with a long and apparently incurable history of child abuse.

Doing it out of love is different I'd have seriously considered it if my sisters needed it.

Well, given we don't actually know the circumstances of this child's gestation - maybe it was a relative, or a good friend who acted as surrogate - it really does seem unkind to condemn JVJ on this basis.

Do you see many wealthy white women doing it out of the goodness of their hearts?

Or even :

Do you see many wealthy white women doing it out of the goodness of their hearts? for money because it's a good career choice?

Old parents v. v. bad. Grandparents same age who by necessity take in junior offspring of their own drug-addicted, etc, offspring, also bad?
Completely different situation but a very sad one for the DC of a drug addict.
It's great grandparents will foster but its still a horrible situation.

As with anything, if exploitation is involved, it isn't right.

However, I don't think surrogacy is inherently exploitative. It can be done well, with all parties aware of the risks and consenting freely.

I also think poor women can make the best decisions for them.

Exactly. You should only remove babies from their mothers as a last resort. There have been years of research and studies that have shown how damaging it is to take babies away from their mothers.

Actually choosing to do this with no thought for the child and even worse to do it in your 60s when you realistically won’t be able to care for the child properly or for long absolutely beggars belief.

I hope this thread gets pulled. It's really ugly to judge and condemn a woman like this, who may well be reading here.

Well, given we don't actually know the circumstances of this child's gestation - maybe it was a relative, or a good friend who acted as surrogate
At 64 no I'd have only offer surrogacy to a loved one who was responsible, this lady is not.
Only a desperately poor woman would do that for a near pensioner.
I hope the Ukraine has good counselling.

@IceLace100

As with anything, if exploitation is involved, it isn't right.

However, I don't think surrogacy is inherently exploitative. It can be done well, with all parties aware of the risks and consenting freely.

I also think poor women can make the best decisions for them.

Yes women can make any choice they want right. Sell their body, their womb for the gain of someone else. Like genuinely risk their life just so some selfish rich woman can have a baby.

What about a kidney? Shouldn’t she have the right to sell that too to some rich person who needs one.

Except then why is it illegal to sell organs 🤔 Because it’s fucking exploitative that’s why

@milkyaqua

I hope this thread gets pulled. It's really ugly to judge and condemn a woman like this, who may well be reading here.

Totally agree.

@milkyaqua

I hope this thread gets pulled. It's really ugly to judge and condemn a woman like this, who may well be reading here.

She gave an interview promoting it!

My god I'm 31 and I decided the cut off was 30. I have one healthy happy DS and am a loan parent.

Even if I weirdly fell in love with a millionaire tomorrow who cherished DS. Would still be a no to a new baby.

I like my sleep now, even at 31 I'm grumpy if I don't get a solid 7 hours , fuck I'd be positively Victor mMeldrew in my 60's with a newborn.

I don't think you can equate selling a kidney with surrogacy. They aren't the same.

After selling a kidney, you're definitely left with a life limiting deficiency. The human body is meant to have 2 kidneys.

After a pregnancy, you're likely to be absolutely fine after some recovery (albeit with some risk). The women are unlikely to be left with any deficiency long term and certainly not a life limiting one. The female body is meant to carry children and give birth.

Saying selling a kidney is like surrogacy is a false equivalency. And it's therefore treated differently in law and in the ethics of the majority of the population.

Life does not come with guarantees. Who knows when you’re going to die? She may life to 100 and be perfectly happy & healthy. I know a beautiful young mum who died very young and the grandmother is helping the raise the children. Be kind.

@IceLace100

I don't think you can equate selling a kidney with surrogacy. They aren't the same.

After selling a kidney, you're definitely left with a life limiting deficiency. The human body is meant to have 2 kidneys.

After a pregnancy, you're likely to be absolutely fine after some recovery (albeit with some risk). The women are unlikely to be left with any deficiency long term and certainly not a life limiting one. The female body is meant to carry children and give birth.

Saying selling a kidney is like surrogacy is a false equivalency. And it's therefore treated differently in law and in the ethics of the majority of the population.

Are you aware that implanting an egg that is not your own into your womb makes the risks of pregnancy much, much higher?