To think Kurt Cobain was ahead of his time (feminism, racism, homophobia)

[AllisoninWunderland]

I’ve just been watching the documentary about him (man I loved him).

Aside from changing the face of music and fashion in the early 90s, aibu to think he was way ahead of his time in his views?

This is from the liner notes of their album “Incesticide,” they warned:

“If any of you in any way hate homosexuals, people of different color, or women, please do this one favor for us — leave us the f- alone! Don’t come to our shows and don’t buy our records.” The liner notes to their next album, “In Utero,” echoed that admonition: “If you’re a sexist, racist, homophobe or basically an ahole, don’t buy this CD. I don’t care if you like me, I hate you.”

He was an extremely sensitive man, highly tuned into ‘the under-dog’, a supporter of people of colour, women and the LGBTQ community.

What a waste 😢

Yet another paean to a white, privileged male. Yawn.

@TheHateIsNotGood

And so, in true MN form, an OP asking if Kurt Cob was ahead of his time in terms of feminism/homophobia has descended into a me-like music, you-don't, me-heard music, you didn't, kind of upmanship-shit, says it all.

Reminds me of the Brexit threads a bit.

To be fair, music always has this performative and moralistic element in a way that most other art forms don't.

I missed out on hearing a lot of music as a kid because of people sneering that I wasn't welcome to it because I didn't fit in with whatever subculture was around it, and that included alternative stuff, in fact it generally was the alternative stuff. I think Cobain himself sneered at the "wrong" people wanting to enjoy his stuff?

Riot Grrls RIP. And decades later we have Kardashians, btox, influencers, Love Island and too much shit to mention.

@TheHateIsNotGood

Riot Grrls RIP. And decades later we have Kardashians, btox, influencers, Love Island and too much shit to mention.

We had plenty of dross back then! It Girls were the newspaper fodder, and the supermodels. As for mainstream music, manufactured pop was the fashion, you couldn't move for that shit. I can't remember the songs, but there were loads of videos of nothing but women in bikinis massaging phallic microphones.

"A few memories there

I wonder if you ever saw a band called "Butterfingers" ... (Cross legged girls got the world at their feet ...)"

No, don't recall seeing them, were they early 90s?

The most memorable for me was Daisy Chainsaw. So much so that I saw them again when they supported Hole at ULU. Obviously Courtney was the headliner at that gig but Katie-Jane Garside was the closest the UK ever came to the Riot Grrrl movement (and she was fabulous on The Word too, as well as being featured on Beavis and Butthead)!

Katie-Jane also co-wrote/performed my favourite track ever, Cold Fish by Queen Adreena.

I missed out on hearing a lot of music as a kid because of people sneering that I wasn't welcome to it because I didn't fit in with whatever subculture was around it, and that included alternative stuff, in fact it generally was the alternative stuff

Exactly the same here. I’ve always felt on the periphery - not ‘cool’ enough to be part of the group. I remember being mercilessly bullied at school for liking the Spice Girls. I was only 10.

@VanGoSunflowers

I missed out on hearing a lot of music as a kid because of people sneering that I wasn't welcome to it because I didn't fit in with whatever subculture was around it, and that included alternative stuff, in fact it generally was the alternative stuff

Exactly the same here. I’ve always felt on the periphery - not ‘cool’ enough to be part of the group. I remember being mercilessly bullied at school for liking the Spice Girls. I was only 10.

This sounds familiar...

Something worth remembering is that there is a reason they were popular. No, they weren't great singers, nor was it stellar music, and they all said so afterwards. But there were no mainstream girl groups at the time who presented as equal friends, without a lead singer. In fact, they were very keen not to have a lead singer. Of course it wasn't all sunshine and roses behind the scenes, when is it ever with a group of creative/performance-based people? But it was a new concept for a lot of youngsters at the time, and certainly something refreshing in the way women were being presented. Plus, manufactured cartoon pop was the fashion at the time, and they did it well with the characters and so on.

Exactly Dr, there was loads of shit then and loads now, so not much has changed and seems, not much will really.

Demanding Maternity-rights, whilst looking like whatever part/role your being paid to act as, isn't really a step forward in terms of women's emancipation.
Still on a grindstone, playing a lesser role to men, with the 'bonus' of heaps more responsibility.

Instead of giving women more legal rights, give men more legal rights and societal acceptance of their abilities to care for children. Women need to stop freaking out when a man steps into a child-caring role, we don't have a monopoly on caring - many men are better than most of us women are at 'caring'.

I don’t think society is less homophobic, racist or sexist than it was in the nineties.

I wouldn't say being anti-racist, anti-homophobia & anti-misogyny in the 1990s was being ahead of his time. Pretty much every pop star was or claimed to be. What's sad is that things have changed so little in a lots of ways since then. Or haven't changed for the better.

I suggest that society now is less accepting of difference than it was in the 1970s; all things considered - the current acceptance of 'difference' seems to rely on badge-wearing and categorizations, in previous decades you could just be 'different' without declaring an identity to categorize the difference.

Not saying all things were ideal then but they aren't now either so not much progress has been made really and we kid ourselves if we think we are more progressed now.

We just need to be more accepting of difference as part of the human 'condition', rather than giving all the differences names, our time would be much better spent just getting on with life in it's many forms, accepting all the nuances and differences that we come across along the way.

I suggest that society now is less accepting of difference than it was in the 1970s; all things considered

You must be joking:
Paki bashing
Queer bashing
Student bashing
Getting really bad hassle in the street if you looked slightly different

My memory of the 70’s is very different

You must be joking:
Paki bashing
Queer bashing
Student bashing
Getting really bad hassle in the street if you looked slightly different

All this is still happening except more knives are used these days

It was no doubt fashionable as a back lash to 80’s macho sexist rock. He wrote some great songs and was an intelligent man I like to think this was genuine

I have no time for men who screw underage girls, so refuse to put Bowie on a pedestal for his "pioneering" < absolutely agree David Bowie is always excused

But not to the extent it was in the 70’s.

The most memorable for me was Daisy Chainsaw

👍

My favourite was babes in Toyland though

@OneTC

The most memorable for me was Daisy Chainsaw

👍

My favourite was babes in Toyland though

Aww, I used to listen to Fontanelle so much when it was released. Has been a while so think I’ll give it a play this evening.

Exactly the same here. I’ve always felt on the periphery - not ‘cool’ enough to be part of the group. I remember being mercilessly bullied at school for liking the Spice Girls. I was only 10.

I was older, but liked the "wrong" music - alternative music in my case. Fine for the boys to like it, but not girls apparently. Bullies will always find something.