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Original poster

To think Kurt Cobain was ahead of his time (feminism, racism, homophobia)

218 replies

AllisoninWunderland · 18/09/2021 22:58

I’ve just been watching the documentary about him (man I loved him).

Aside from changing the face of music and fashion in the early 90s, aibu to think he was way ahead of his time in his views?

This is from the liner notes of their album “Incesticide,” they warned:

“If any of you in any way hate homosexuals, people of different color, or women, please do this one favor for us — leave us the f- alone! Don’t come to our shows and don’t buy our records.” The liner notes to their next album, “In Utero,” echoed that admonition: “If you’re a sexist, racist, homophobe or basically an ahole, don’t buy this CD. I don’t care if you like me, I hate you.”

He was an extremely sensitive man, highly tuned into ‘the under-dog’, a supporter of people of colour, women and the LGBTQ community.

What a waste 😢

OP posts:
VanGoSunflowers · 19/09/2021 18:46

@OrangutanLibrarian

I know I am being ridiculous but I can’t quite bring myself to listen to any of her music either. I can’t stand watching her being interviewed etc - but in doing that I suppose I’m not giving myself enough information to form a balanced view on her

Irrational hatred of strangers isn’t normal

Do you really think so? I disagree. I reckon there is at least one person that you don’t know personally that you hate.

Incidentally, very very rarely I meet people that I have a strong negative reaction to. They usually turn out to be psychopaths. There was an interesting thread in here about it a while ago, people getting a sixth sense that something is not quite right about someone.

Or maybe I am just a raving misanthropist Grin

LukeEvansWife · 19/09/2021 18:51

Why is it so hard to believe? I know it’s possible to like the odd track of a band you don’t like but it’s also possible not to like anything a band does.

(See also Oasis)

I like a huge range of music from opera to heavy metal, in fact bits of most genres

VanGoSunflowers · 19/09/2021 18:55

@LukeEvansWife

Why is it so hard to believe? I know it’s possible to like the odd track of a band you don’t like but it’s also possible not to like anything a band does.

(See also Oasis)

I like a huge range of music from opera to heavy metal, in fact bits of most genres

I dunno. I’ve never met anyone who doesn’t like at least one track of theirs! Ditto Oasis Grin

I just find it over simplistic to describe an entire band’s music as ‘depressing’. And you’ve attacked them a lot on this thread… is the ex connection? My ex likes Damian Rice and as a result, I fucking hate him Grin

Bouledeneige · 19/09/2021 18:56

I fervently agree with his politics and the loss. I loved the documentary too.

But ahead of his time? I grew up in the same era and there was plenty of us who shared his politics both in the US and UK (I studied in both countries).

LukeEvansWife · 19/09/2021 18:59

It’s not the ex connection - I still have a great relationship with him. He was also into some good music.

So everyone you have ever met likes at least one Nirvana and Oasis track? Okay…. To be honest it doesn’t generally come up in conversation with most people I have met.

VanGoSunflowers · 19/09/2021 19:02

@LukeEvansWife

It’s not the ex connection - I still have a great relationship with him. He was also into some good music.

So everyone you have ever met likes at least one Nirvana and Oasis track? Okay…. To be honest it doesn’t generally come up in conversation with most people I have met.

Pretty much. But the people I meet and hang around with most of the time talk about music a lot and most are musicians (including myself) so that might be why.

Who then, in your opinion, is/are the ultimate band/bands?

LukeEvansWife · 19/09/2021 19:05

GrinGrin Why would I do that? If you think grunge and Brit pop are universally liked, then you clearly have a bit of an echo chamber

LukeEvansWife · 19/09/2021 19:07

I think I should do a straw poll at work tomorrow about liking at least one track - 80 staff members, and willing to be the vast percentage would agree with him.

TheHateIsNotGood · 19/09/2021 19:07

Haven't voted as there is no right and wrong, My big take on that time was the Seattle Riot Grrl movement, parallel to and part of Nirvana, Grunge and the damp, grey deprivation that so many of us Brits were living in. Yehooo.

Then The Spice Girls came and, well, set us Grrls back decades.

Wotwhywhen · 19/09/2021 19:08

@LukeEvansWife

GrinGrin Why would I do that? If you think grunge and Brit pop are universally liked, then you clearly have a bit of an echo chamber
Bleach was good. Brot pop sucks all kinds of balls.

Gimme Maiden any day

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 19/09/2021 19:09

I despise Oasis. Every single fucking song they did was shite.

VanGoSunflowers · 19/09/2021 19:10

@LukeEvansWife

GrinGrin Why would I do that? If you think grunge and Brit pop are universally liked, then you clearly have a bit of an echo chamber
I’m very much not limited to grunge by the way

I too have a very broad taste in music - you don’t need to name an artist/band of those genres. I’m just interested to know what kind of music you actually like. But fine if you’d rather not say!

FYI - I’m not really a huge fan of Oasis. I used to like them when I was younger but I just can’t really listen to them now. They irritate me.

LukeEvansWife · 19/09/2021 19:12

YI - I’m not really a huge fan of Oasis. I used to like them when I was younger but I just can’t really listen to them now. They irritate me.

I have an almost visceral reaction to Liam Gallagher - there is something about him that creeps me out and I don’t know why Grin

DGRossetti · 19/09/2021 19:13

@SleepOhHowIMissYou

I was London based in late 80s/early 90s and the clubs I frequented felt like an extension of the anything goes attitude hanging over from the 80s - mixed gay/straight and anything in between. Full Tilt in Electric Ballroom in Camden had a brilliant mix of live music - grunge, punk, metal, alt rock and a pitch black thrash box on the 1st floor if you were a fan of tinnitus.

The beauty of these places were that you could go there and dance without being pestered by "lads", unlike pubs and nightclubs of the time that played pop/soul. As someone who spent my twenties fielding unwanted pestering, alternative rock venues/gigs were heaven.

A few memories there Smile

I wonder if you ever saw a band called "Butterfingers" ... (Cross legged girls got the world at their feet ...)

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 19/09/2021 19:15

I would consider myself as having pretty varied music taste though. Everything from classical to heavy metal, including some Britpop (depends on the band though).

But Oasis were just crap. And don't get me started on the nasal whining sound that they made instead of singing... they made Bob Dylan sound like Pavarotti. Tbh, the people I know who most like Oasis tend to be people who aren't actually that into music at all.

ElizaDarcysDeeds · 19/09/2021 19:19

Oasis / Blur still falls into a very classist divide. It's interesting. Slightly tedious and nothing to do with the music on either side.

DGRossetti · 19/09/2021 19:20

But Oasis were just crap

I dunno - there's something zeitgeisty about "Cigarettes and Alcohol"

And the bass coming in on "Supersonic" is spine-tingling.

That said the most damning faint praise is "A 'best of' album is all you need ..." (See also: Clapton, Deep Purple, Bob Marley, Roxy Music ....)

VanGoSunflowers · 19/09/2021 19:20

I like anything that is written/composed with passion.
Anything that invokes an emotional reaction - whether positive or negative. I become a bit obsessed with music though. If I like an artist/band, I find myself listening to their stuff over and over on repeat until I know every little nuance and lyric.

VanGoSunflowers · 19/09/2021 19:23

@DGRossetti

But Oasis were just crap

I dunno - there's something zeitgeisty about "Cigarettes and Alcohol"

And the bass coming in on "Supersonic" is spine-tingling.

That said the most damning faint praise is "A 'best of' album is all you need ..." (See also: Clapton, Deep Purple, Bob Marley, Roxy Music ....)

You’ve totally summed it up to me, with that last paragraph!

To me, a ‘best of Nirvana’ will give you only a little enjoyment really, apart from maybe a bit of air drumming and singing.

But a listen to the MTV unplugged album, for example, still gets me every time. I also love In Utero Blush

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 19/09/2021 19:28

I'd agree with that about music composed with passion. I also love songs where the lyrics would make good poetry in their own right, or compositions/performances where truly impressive technical musicianship is displayed.

I love music. Manufactured / manipulative crap music provokes a strong reaction in me because it could have been so much more.

And I agree re: 'best of' collections. A good band or artist cannot / should not be appreciated by listening to a 'best of'

VanGoSunflowers · 19/09/2021 19:33

I also love songs where the lyrics would make good poetry in their own right

I agree with everything you said, especially this part!
Bit out of left field but for this reason, I really rate Hozier. His ‘hits’ are so/so but his album tracks are (in my opinion) amazing. He is an excellent lyricist. Love the mix of folk and blues he pulls in to what is quite a ‘pop’ feel but it doesn’t sound manufactured to me. He is also an excellent musician.

VanGoSunflowers · 19/09/2021 19:36

Hozier is actually really in to poetry and that shows in his song writing ability.

FromEden · 19/09/2021 19:55

I idolized Kurt Cobain in my teen years but now I realise he talked a good game but his actions did not match up to his stated values.

Still think he's beautiful though

DGRossetti · 19/09/2021 20:30

But a listen to the MTV unplugged album

"All apologies" was amazing.

TheHateIsNotGood · 19/09/2021 20:46

And so, in true MN form, an OP asking if Kurt Cob was ahead of his time in terms of feminism/homophobia has descended into a me-like music, you-don't, me-heard music, you didn't, kind of upmanship-shit, says it all.

Reminds me of the Brexit threads a bit.