To think Kurt Cobain was ahead of his time (feminism, racism, homophobia)

[AllisoninWunderland]

I’ve just been watching the documentary about him (man I loved him).

Aside from changing the face of music and fashion in the early 90s, aibu to think he was way ahead of his time in his views?

This is from the liner notes of their album “Incesticide,” they warned:

“If any of you in any way hate homosexuals, people of different color, or women, please do this one favor for us — leave us the f- alone! Don’t come to our shows and don’t buy our records.” The liner notes to their next album, “In Utero,” echoed that admonition: “If you’re a sexist, racist, homophobe or basically an ahole, don’t buy this CD. I don’t care if you like me, I hate you.”

He was an extremely sensitive man, highly tuned into ‘the under-dog’, a supporter of people of colour, women and the LGBTQ community.

What a waste 😢

@MattDamon

If you've read Heavier Than Heaven by Charles Cross - which is probably the definitive, best-reviewed Kurt bio - there are accusations that Kurt sexually assaulted a disabled girl as a teen.

Yep I was coming along to say this. Kurt actually described the event in his diary

@Cocolapew I absolutely loved Teenage Fanclub. Their lyrics are so clever. Very under rated band.

I think Dave Grohl is over looked in terms of actually being a good man. Cobain is adulated because he is dead, just like Hendrix, Morrison, Winehouse et al. Suicide might be shameless but it is harmful to the people left to pick up the pieces. I am not entirely sure thinking people who do this lethal act of self harm are 'more' is healthy.

[quote SafeMove]@Cocolapew I absolutely loved Teenage Fanclub. Their lyrics are so clever. Very under rated band.

I think Dave Grohl is over looked in terms of actually being a good man. Cobain is adulated because he is dead, just like Hendrix, Morrison, Winehouse et al. Suicide might be shameless but it is harmful to the people left to pick up the pieces. I am not entirely sure thinking people who do this lethal act of self harm are 'more' is healthy.[/quote]
I don’t agree that Grohl is underrated in this way. He certainly always has struck me as a thoroughly nice man and a very talented musician…

His song writing ability… not so much though.

Teenage Fanclub were lovely as well, really friendly.
Dave Grohl and Kris Novoselic were really quiet, they sat on the floor outside the room where Kurt was looking a bit cheesed off. I fell over DGs feet and he was very nice about it and helped me up.

Liner notes on album covers are a pretty easy way of virtue signalling without actually doing anything. I was born in the 70s and always knew that racism/sexism/homophobia was wrong so please let’s don’t pretend that Cobain was the man who started it all.

And yes, assaulting his girlfriend on numerous occasions would imply he wasn’t so pure.

But sure, if you think a note on an album absolves him of any criticism, then fine .

I loved Nirvana, loved Kurt Cobain, MTV unplugged album is one of my favourites.

He was a troubled soul and I remember being absolutely gutted when I heard about his death. Wish he could have got the help he needed for his demons.

I don’t think Dave Grohl is overlooked because of Kurt’s suicide! Not at all. He’s amazing and The Foo Fighters are huge, the amount of love for him speaks volumes. He always comes across very well in interviews, I )and many millions of others) think he’s awesome.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Read an interesting thing aboubt Nirvana years ago. They were described as the Sex Pistols without the anger.

Never mind the Bollocks=angry
Never Mind=passive

Both sang about nihilism

And, coincidentally, both bands were devoid of musical talent

I know what I’m going to sit down and watch this afternoon.

I actually think it’s offensive that people seem to think attitudes like that were born in the 90s.

@Cocolapew - sounds like quite a night! I've always been fascinated by Courtney Love, she had a very difficult childhood and is a complete force of nature. Perhaps not in a good way but what a character!

He felt the sorrows of the world too deeply

Oh come off it.

The alternative rock movement that Nirvana spearheaded into the mainstrem was a reaction against that culture in favour of a view of the word that was more progressive and socially aware.

Oh come on. What a load of bollocks

I think Dave Grohl is over looked in terms of actually being a good man
Really?
Virtually every interview or reference I've seen about him refers to him as " the nicest man in rock"

And why is ‘alternative rock’ so fucking depressing?

@LukeEvansWife

And why is ‘alternative rock’ so fucking depressing?

Remember alternative comedy ?

You're the alternative to comedy ...

DH and I were discussing Dave Grohl watching the documentary last night, and we both agreed that the time he was in Nirvana is basically a footnote in his career.

The Foos are 100% massive in their own right. And yes, he's well known for being very nice.

I hate the Foo Fighters but I'm sure Grohl is a nice man. His niceness is commented on alllll the time.

ItWearsTheBatteriesOut

Joolsin
His views were pretty standard for that time and that scene, really. I was in my early 20s then and going to loads of gigs. I felt completely safe and equal among all the grunge guys. Clothes/hair was pretty unisex. People of different races/sexualities were universally accepted. Looking back, the freedom and lack of objectification was great. When my daughter started going out at night in recent years, I was appalled by her stories of being groped on the way to the dance floor so frequently it became an expected thing. This would simply not have happened in my gigging/clubbing days - if any guy had tried this, the others would have turned on him, it would have been social suicide.

I'd remove those tinted glasses if I was you

Agreed. I was born in early 80s. So clubbing in mid to late 90s. I was sexually assaulted so often in clubs and previously school I didn’t even realise it was that, just thought it was ‘how boys were’.

[quote Cocolapew]@suckingonchillidogs it was the drugs, Kurt od'ed and ended up in hospital and Courtney was a shrieking, attention seeking, nasty piece of work. She was awful to fans that had gathered at the side door, promising they could come in if they gave her stuff then not allowing it. The stripey mohair jumper that Kurt used to wear was one she took of a young fan and then got security to chase him away.[/quote]
Hmm, what sort of reaction is the correct one when your husband overdoses I wonder? And not for the first time as Kurt had a history of suicide attempts dating back to before he was famous and before he met Courtney.

Should the fans at the side door been allowed in to witness this event? I wasn't there of course, you were, but I do wonder how that would have helped the situation?

@LukeEvansWife

And why is ‘alternative rock’ so fucking depressing?

Depends who you listen to really. Pixies and Smashing Pumpkins are quite uplifting I find.

I'm the same age as Kurt Cobain.

There was a fair amount of people who were anti racism and homophobia and were for women's rights. He was t all e or ahead of his Tim e.

What about Two tone? Rock Against Racism? Artists like Jimmy Sommervi,le? All before KC. I'm not knocking him, i liked him, but h es not unique in his views.

Apologies about my typos. I've broken my arm and am usi g my non dominant arm.

Well obviously this was well before the overdose. People weren't sitting around watching . Kurt was locked in a room while CL ran riot around the backstage area making sure everyone knew how very important she was.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

He was just a flawed human being with the same values as many other human beings in the 90s. It’s easy to write album notes like that - the real question is whether his actions demonstrate that he lived up to those words - much harder for him and for all of us to do.

In answer to your OP, no, he wasn’t ahead of his time.

Exactly. He seemed like a nice man in many ways and someone whose values I'd approve of but he was just a man who did some admirable things and sometimes behaved pretty badly. Like most of us. And he wasn't a great guitarist by any stretch of the imagination. Most Nirvana riffs are very simple, which is not at all the same as saying they're bad. I enjoy a lot his work. But to call him a great guitarist is stretching it to the limit.

@Cocolapew

Well obviously this was well before the overdose. People weren't sitting around watching . Kurt was locked in a room while CL ran riot around the backstage area making sure everyone knew how very important she was.

You saw a snapshot of their rather unusual lives. If you were treated badly I can understand why you'd think what you do about them but personally I think you can't judge someone until you've walked in their shoes. You may react very differently in the same situation but I guess that's because your circumstances are different.