To think Kurt Cobain was ahead of his time (feminism, racism, homophobia)

[AllisoninWunderland]

I’ve just been watching the documentary about him (man I loved him).

Aside from changing the face of music and fashion in the early 90s, aibu to think he was way ahead of his time in his views?

This is from the liner notes of their album “Incesticide,” they warned:

“If any of you in any way hate homosexuals, people of different color, or women, please do this one favor for us — leave us the f- alone! Don’t come to our shows and don’t buy our records.” The liner notes to their next album, “In Utero,” echoed that admonition: “If you’re a sexist, racist, homophobe or basically an ahole, don’t buy this CD. I don’t care if you like me, I hate you.”

He was an extremely sensitive man, highly tuned into ‘the under-dog’, a supporter of people of colour, women and the LGBTQ community.

What a waste 😢

I enjoyed Montage of Heck and Soaked in Bleach.

@PooWillyNameChange

Interesting so many here is saying 'standard for 90s' when this recently there was a great about Goves sexist/homophobic speeches in the early 90s and people in droves criticised that OP for holding him to a higher standard when "that was what it was like back then".

I was born in 1990...which is it MN?!

Has it not occurred to you that perhaps the type of MNers defending Gove's 90s bigotry may not be the ones who were attending Nine Inch Nails gigs at the Astoria?

Use your loaf.

I was born in 1990...which is it MN?!

The pomposity.

Born in 1975 and very much an alternative/grunge kid in the late 80s/early 90s. (Hated the shift to lad culture and Britpop in the mid-90s!). Pretty much everyone I knew was anti-racist (anti-apartheid was a huge cause we all supported growing up in the '80s), feminist, anti-homophobia, anti-Thatcherite/Tory (so anti-Gove too, pp).

I loved in particular that Kurt aligned himself with women's issues, but anti-sexism, anti-racism and anti-homophobia was fairly standard amongst alternative musicians of that time. So I don't think he was 'ahead of his time', more that things have regressed since (see the aforementioned sexist, 'lad culture' that became the norm in the U.K. from about 1995 onwards, swiftly followed by easily accessible internet porn etc).

@Joolsin

His views were pretty standard for that time and that scene, really. I was in my early 20s then and going to loads of gigs. I felt completely safe and equal among all the grunge guys. Clothes/hair was pretty unisex. People of different races/sexualities were universally accepted. Looking back, the freedom and lack of objectification was great. When my daughter started going out at night in recent years, I was appalled by her stories of being groped on the way to the dance floor so frequently it became an expected thing. This would simply not have happened in my gigging/clubbing days - if any guy had tried this, the others would have turned on him, it would have been social suicide.

I'd remove those tinted glasses if I was you.

I remember Nivarna breaking through, they were great. Kurt was pro choice and supported women's rights which was often rare in the USA, just look at the anti abortion laws which still exist.
He was a deeply troubled individual and an addict. As the documentary said, nowadays there is help and support for mental health issuues, back then it was not the case.
I found he had that presence and aura about him like many rock stars do, Mick Hutchence springs to mind, but he wasn't perfect.
Who knows how any of us would cope with the fame and adulation.
Obviously the drugs affected his behaviour, the same as with all addicts.

@AllisoninWunderland

No I don’t have an ageist perspective! I suppose I maybe worded the title badly. It’s just a discussion about Kurt Cobain. Not about how the whole world was racist etc pre 1990! Chill.

He was of his time. We call it ‘West Coast nice’ and it was a thing since the 60s really. But maybe not a thing in the UK 🤷‍♀️

If you've read Heavier Than Heaven by Charles Cross - which is probably the definitive, best-reviewed Kurt bio - there are accusations that Kurt sexually assaulted a disabled girl as a teen.

If any of you in any way hate homosexuals, people of different color, or women, please do this one favor for us — leave us the f--- alone! Don’t come to our shows and don’t buy our records

If you’re a sexist, racist, homophobe or basically an a--hole, don’t buy this CD. I don’t care if you like me, I hate you.”

Off on a slight tangent, this is the sort of anti- anything that celebrities could do and I'd find it genuine but people hardly want to lose anything in their "fight for a cause".

For example: I've seen a few well-known 'anti-racists' who've gone on to accept awards, badges (or whatever) that they, themselves, have admitted to be steeped in racist ideals or imperialism (or whatever) and in the same breath, they're celebrating that recognition and/or saying, "Hey, it's such a big deal and a huge honour. My parents are so proud of me. So what can you do? I can't reject it, I have to accept it". (They said all these without being asked. I suppose it's the guilty conscience due to the position they usually take when they're not being 'honoured'.)

Well as long it benefits you, eh? Yes you can reject it if you really want to. In fact, this was your opportunity to shine in your anti- whatever cause but you chose not to take it. Oh well, next stop for you is more shouts into the void to 'Cancel racism and its structures' - you mean the one you've just been a partaker of or another?

Hypocritical, crazy life, this is.

He views were pretty typical and similar to people I knew. It was the indie way.

I enjoyed the docu, love nirvana, wish I'd paid more attention at the time but I was just a couple of years too young. This has been an interesting thread because I suppose I would have thought they were, well, not groundbreaking, but forward thinking in some way. It's depressing to hear from other posters that things have gone backwards, although makes sense when I engage brain. I was horrified by a thread on here the other day by a mum whose daughter wanted to leave school because of the amount of sexual harassment and porn around, particularly on the bus ride. It sounded really horrible but normalised. As a mum to young kids I wonder what can be done about that.

@trama

Absolutely. He would wear dresses and be fucking cool with it. He was a really excellent human with more than his fair share of demons.

This was pretty common in the 90s and people made much less of a deal of it, Nicky Wire from the Manics was always wearing dresses.

I feel like back then in general it was more accepted as just wear what you like and that clothes are androgynous than it is now.

It's been said but yep the views were pretty typical of the time. The only other thing u wanted to comment was the views were shared by the band, read up a bit on Nivana not just KC.

The cover of James’ album, Laid, from 1993, has all of them in dresses.

@UmbilicusProfundus

It was the 90s, not the 50s.

This. I was a similar age to Cobain when he died. The majority of people that age weren’t a bunch of racist rednecks….not in my social group anyway. Freddie Mercury was wearing dresses in the 70s.

It's no harder to put that sort of stuff in your album cover than it is to post it on social media.

And plenty of others, like me said that's not how it was back then.

@PooWillyNameChange

Interesting so many here is saying 'standard for 90s' when this recently there was a great about Goves sexist/homophobic speeches in the early 90s and people in droves criticised that OP for holding him to a higher standard when "that was what it was like back then".

I was born in 1990...which is it MN?!

And plenty of people, like me, said it was NOT acceptable back then.

@MattDamon

If you've read Heavier Than Heaven by Charles Cross - which is probably the definitive, best-reviewed Kurt bio - there are accusations that Kurt sexually assaulted a disabled girl as a teen.

Yes and also his homophobia towards his own sister.

That book is brilliant by the way. He was clearly a very troubled person.

Gutted I never saw them live, his death came before they were due to play Brixton Academy, I still have the tickets.

Let's face it.

If a musician came out and declare that they hate gays, women and trans people, it'd be career suicide. Even Eminem had to back track and play a gig with Elton John to make up for some of the lyrics he used.

A few notes in the liner of an album, that the band probably didn't even see before it was presented to them, it's hardly a window into the actual real beliefs held by the band.
It's an easy thing to do, that causes no problems, but scores them a few points with certain demographics.
Same reason Sainsbury's and other business get all rainbows around pride time. Costs them nothing, scores them points with that demographic.

Ahead of his time?

I take it you don't remember the 1960s

He was just a flawed human being with the same values as many other human beings in the 90s. It’s easy to write album notes like that - the real question is whether his actions demonstrate that he lived up to those words - much harder for him and for all of us to do.

In answer to your OP, no, he wasn’t ahead of his time.

I’m too excited by your post to read the full thread

I COMPLETELY agree with you OP. I feel he is/was massively misunderstood- a very sensitive and incredibly sincere person who happened to be a musical genius. Such a sad loss!

People need to stop. He wrote good songs. Everything else you are making up.