Organ donation

[Mumguilt12]

After a recent death in the family, Me and DH were chatting about our death and funeral plans etc. Cheery huh!

Anyway, I said the songs I wanted played at my funeral. And I am absolutely clear that if my organs can be donated, they should be. All of them.
If not, I’d like to donate my body to science. I’d like to be cremated.

He thinks organ donation is not nice. “I dont want them to cut me up etc” I am absolutely shocked by his negative feelings towards it.

I said if our kid needed a new heart, would he accept it and he said he would. Now I believe if you are willing to take, you should be willing to give.

He is certain that he finds it all a bit wrong and it’s not nice for the family left behind. I also said that I completely disagreed and I personally would find comfort in knowing my relative had saved a life.

I know it’s silly but a) if I go, I don’t trust him to follow my wishes b) I’m judging him. How can you not want to help a sick person?! I don’t get it.

He comes from a religious family although himself is not really into it (other than a general belief in god). Not sure if that’s part of his thoughts.

It’s really made me look at him in a different light. AIBU?

It’s times like these that I think we are really not compatible. I really value kindness and thinking of others and he… really doesn’t.

In my opinion, people who are squeamish about organ donation are just self involved. Your family do not see your empty carcass

My son was NOT an empty carcass. He was still my son.

Since when do we dehumanise our loved ones who have died?

It isn't self involved at all. I have left the choice to my children. The circumstances in which someone has to die to be able to donate their organs are usually shocking for the families, you can't blame someone for seeing their living, breathing loved one (albeit attached to machines that are keeping them alive) laid there and not accepting that they are dead.

I think the people who use words like 'carcass' are making people squeamish around the subject actually.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, organ donation is selfless and its a gift, but its not selfish to make the choice not to, in the way that it's not selfish to leave everything in your will to your loved ones rather than to charity, your loved ones are the ones who have to carry on and live with their choices, and donation isn't an easy decision.

@EmmaJR1

My dad had a kidney transplant at 18, a 2nd kidney transplant at 24 and a heart transplant at 40. He was told the heart would last 6 years. He died 5 weeks ago at 64.

In my opinion, people who are squeamish about organ donation are just self involved. Your family do not see your empty carcass. You're sewn up and dressed nicely before you are burned or buried.

Obvious I'm a bit sensitive about it but I LITERALLY wouldn't be here if everyone felt the same as your OH and my dad wouldn't not have had those 4 very fulfilling decades either.
I think his view is very selfish.

As sensitive as a fucking mallet.

Honest to God, how can you not read these people's
experiences with a shred of empathy for others. Your experience and emotions that go along with that trauma are unique to YOU.

How can you, or anyone else on this thread, stand in judgement of other's trauma, is utterly beyond me.

It’s a very emotive subject though and I feel you have to respect other family members opinions

I’m pro donation, I’ve been involved professionally in organ retrieval and seen the emotional pressure that some of the medics involved suffer with when calling in recipients

I will in the next decade need a double corneal transplant myself, however I have high functioning autistic DC

DD in particular feels very distraught at the idea of me donating my body parts, she has quite complex mental health conditions including PTSD and I don’t feel that I can add to her trauma by donating when she will already have grief to process and so have reluctantly agreed I won’t be a donor

However I don’t feel that I can accept new corneas if I am unwilling to hypothetically donate to others, it is a situation that I ponder on regularly but my child’s mental health comes first

I'm pro-donation and in the instance where that doesn't arise, I'm also considering donating my body to medical science. My own daughter benefited in Med school from this and the person they worked on was treated with ultimate respect and care. My daughter found it a really humbling experience.

That said, my family are not convinced that they could go through with making that decision, and I also respect that.

Living and loving is hard. Adding the judgement and criticism of others into the mix makes it so much harder.

ZoeCM That isn't the reason I would refuse a donated organ, my cousin & friend both had transplants, my cousin had a kidney & liver & spent the rest of his life being terrified of infections due to the anti rejection drugs, a common cold would put him in hospital, thankfully he passed away before Covid was ever heard of. My friend had a kidney transplant 5 years after suffering renal failure, the kidney lasted 6 months before it failed & made her so sick she begged to have it removed. Getting a transplant isn't the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, it's another set of constant hospital appointments, drugs to be taken & things to be avoided.

I haven't rtft yet but @Floralnomad here is the donation page , and yes you can opt to donate certain parts or everything
www.organdonation.nhs.uk/register-your-decision/donate/?

I regesterd to donate a couple of years ago , it was than and still is the right thing for me to do . I will be honest I dont see why anyone would not donate but it is their choice and nobody should disrespect that.

[quote ZoeCM]**@Xenobitch, @XDownwiththissortofthingX and @Nat6999: are you honestly saying that if you got told your only chance of survival was an organ transplant, you'd tell your families that you're turning it down? If you have children, would you really tell them that you're choosing to leave them without a mother? If it were a member of my family I'd beg them to take the organ; I think most people would.

I've never known anyone who died (or whose loved one died) because they turned down an organ transplant on principle, yet just about every time this discussion comes up, several people insist they'd do just that. Are there any statistics on how common it is?[/quote]
Yes. It is still my choice to turn down any sort of medical procedure.

@EmmaJR1

I would say that the only person being self involved is you.
You can’t see beyond the fact that your father received a gift which led to your existence but somewhere along the line you have lost sight of the fact that it was a gift.
You don’t see the loss and sacrifice that someone else gave to make him that gift. Now you think it should be something that should be taken and that is shown in your offhand and insensitive remarks.
Many people cannot bear the thought that their loved ones body is damaged.

@Babdoc

My DH died at 36. We donated his heart, kidneys and corneas. His heart saved a 21 year old who was dying of a congenital heart malformation. I still grieve DH thirty years later, but there is a small crumb of comfort that we followed his wishes and helped another family to avoid the pain that we suffered. I am a Christian, and don’t see any conflict of interest between religion and organ donation. Christ gave his whole body for our salvation- how can it be wrong for us to offer parts of ours?

Quoting so more people get to read this post, which is one of the most wonderful I have ever read on mn. Babcock you are amazing

[quote blubberyboo]@EmmaJR1

I would say that the only person being self involved is you.
You can’t see beyond the fact that your father received a gift which led to your existence but somewhere along the line you have lost sight of the fact that it was a gift.
You don’t see the loss and sacrifice that someone else gave to make him that gift. Now you think it should be something that should be taken and that is shown in your offhand and insensitive remarks.
Many people cannot bear the thought that their loved ones body is damaged.[/quote]
I absolutely do see it as a gift, the most generous gift that anyone could ever receive, I just think people like ops husband who like to take without giving see arseholes.

And his excuses are empty and selfish especially if op thinks he might not follow her wishes.

I'm on the register so the opt out system doesn't affect me (but I am not that keen on it - I don't think consent should be assumed).

However, I do think that if you opt in that should be that, and family should not be able to override it (and ditto if you opt out). My body, my choice, nobody else's.

@lockdownmadnessdotcom

I'm on the register so the opt out system doesn't affect me (but I am not that keen on it - I don't think consent should be assumed).

However, I do think that if you opt in that should be that, and family should not be able to override it (and ditto if you opt out). My body, my choice, nobody else's.

If someone has opted out, then it would be awful of their family to overridde that, and consent to donation. But then I do understand why the medical team will let the family override patients wishes to donate. They wont have the chance to sit with their loved one as they pass when life support is withdrawn. They wont be there for their final breath and heart beat. They are living a nightmare at that time, and it is very difficult to think straight. All the more reason it is important to discuss these things before it is too late.

I'm on the register so the opt out system doesn't affect me (but I am not that keen on it - I don't think consent should be assumed).

Sorry, I might be being slow-which register fo you mean?

I absolutely do see it as a gift, the most generous gift that anyone could ever receive, I just think people like ops husband who like to take without giving see arseholes.

And his excuses are empty and selfish especially if op thinks he might not follow her wishes.

He hasn't taken without giving.

It certainly doesn't sound like you see it as a gift either after referring to people who donate organs, like my son, or the people who died and helped your dad live as empty carcasses. I'm actually horrified that someone who was effected by such a gift could be so callous.

@LateDecemberBackInLowB12

I'm not callous. I just don't believe everything we love about a person stays in the body. I'm sorry if my expression was insensitive to your experience.

The op stated her husband said he would take a transplant but didn't believe in his organs being donated. So I think he's selfish.

I am so so grateful for the heart and 2 kidneys my dad received. I get extremely emotional discussing it with people.

Especially if there is someone who flat out refuses to consider it to the extent their partner worries their last wishes won't be followed.

@LateDecemberBackInLowB12

I absolutely do see it as a gift, the most generous gift that anyone could ever receive, I just think people like ops husband who like to take without giving see arseholes.

And his excuses are empty and selfish especially if op thinks he might not follow her wishes.

He hasn't taken without giving.

It certainly doesn't sound like you see it as a gift either after referring to people who donate organs, like my son, or the people who died and helped your dad live as empty carcasses. I'm actually horrified that someone who was effected by such a gift could be so callous.

I don't think you need to be piled on @EmmaJR1 because it's understandable why you feel so strongly about this, but your initial post was quite harshly worded. In regards to carcasses and saying burned rather than cremated.

It's very emotive, but there's no point getting worked up about whether people opt in or out. Chances are, their organs wouldn't be able to be transplanted even if they were on the register. Thousands of organs are wasted everyday regardless of donor status.

The best you can do is be grateful for your dad's donors, be a donor yourself and hope that the kindness of those donating organs inspires others to do the same

For those upset by the opt out law that came into place in England last year, please watch the driving force behind it “ max and Keira’s law”. He was one little boy petitioning for it. To be a donor you have to die in a specific way (In an icu either having treatment withdrawn, or be pronounced dead by neorological criteria in an icu ). And families are always the one to make the decisions if you donate or not (providing you are medically suitable). They are involved in complex conversations and donation only goes a head with their consent (they can over ride your wishes either way). So talking about what you want with your loved ones is super important.

The op stated her husband said he would take a transplant but didn't believe in his organs being donated. So I think he's selfish.

She said he'd accept on behalf of their son, not himself. When their son is an adult it'll be for him to decide about accepting or giving organs.

As it is her DP is not being selfish as, presumably, OP would also want their son to receive a donor organ if needed. In this case her DP is being the 'selfless' one for hypothetically consenting on behalf of another that which he does not wish for himself.

I am so so grateful for the heart and 2 kidneys my dad received. I get extremely emotional discussing it with people

And therefore to be grateful for that gift you can be a donor yourself. Not expect everyone else to pay your fathers gift forward. It stops being a gift if forced or coerced.
And there’s nothing wrong with OPs husband being selfish. He owns his organs and he can do what he likes with them

I'm not callous. I just don't believe everything we love about a person stays in the body. I'm sorry if my expression was insensitive to your experience.

Your 'expression' was disgusting.

Why do you think that your feelings and beliefs are more important than others feelings and beliefs?

That's all I'm getting from your posts.

No wonder people don't want to when someone who's whole existence is down to organ donation sees the bodies of peoples children as mere spare parts for others.

The dehumanising is a real problem, and your attitude is doing more harm than good imo.

Even though my son was technically dead, when they took him to the theatre they still played music that I asked for, and they allowed a person on the team to hold his little hand and talk to my boy because they understood that my needs were also important in that situation. For me that extended as far as some, probably silly, requests, for others they may need to be there for their child's last breath. Its us that have to live with the aftermath forever.

I am pro donation, but I am also pro putting the family of the person who just lost their life first in this situation.

@CourgetteGlutTony you are not being dictated to by the government. The law changed because there are not enough organs for the people that need them and this gives people the opportunity to discuss their wishes with their families. It is a very rare and unique position to be in if you are considered a potential organ donor. As a specialist nurse in this area all families are given organ donation as an end of life choice and their wishes are respected regardless of what the person has opted to do. At the end of the day if somebody has registered to become an organ donor or has not opted out all we want to achieve is the end of life wish that person wanted. It is not a given that you will have your organs taken if you have not opted out. It's a gift like no other and saves and changes lives. But if it's not something you wish to do that is also ok. It's respected. It's nothing to do with the government.

@RedToothBrush you are still free to make the choice to not be an organ donor. Go on line and opt out. It's easy and takes 30 seconds. Otherwise tell your family you don't ever want to be an organ donor.

I find organ donation a very difficult subject. The thought of donating my organs or those of a relative makes me want to be sick. I find it horrifying and the fact that it helps other people doesn't change the visceral feeling I have about it.

But I also recognise that neither I nor any relative can use their body after death. My feelings are emotional, not logical, and I know after I die I won't know what's happening. For this reason I have opted in - to donate every organ. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't make me feel ill to think about. I totally understand why people would opt out and I cannot judge anyone who does. I think not being able to override your feelings that one's body parts should stay their own doesn't make anyone a bad person - there are whole horror stories written about people built from others body parts, so it's clearly not an unusual thing for it to make people feel queasy.

It's fantastic that donated organs can save lives. I'm pleased for anyone who can support the programme and feel unconflicted about it. I'm delighted for anyone who benefits from it. But let's not denigrate those who don't feel they can, and minimise the gift that others have made by doing so.

No way would I want my organs harvested when I die. We don't know what happens after death or whether being hacked to pieces will harm us in the afterlife. There's a substantial school of unsubstiated thought that shows that cremation is bad enough, because it destroys the body too quickly and violently.

Obviously I'll happily accept a donor organ if I ever need one. It's not a contradictory thought process, the idea that I'll accept one but not give one, no more than saying I'll accept medical advice from a doctor but don't give out medical advice myself.

@HarrietsChariot

No way would I want my organs harvested when I die. We don't know what happens after death or whether being hacked to pieces will harm us in the afterlife. There's a substantial school of unsubstiated thought that shows that cremation is bad enough, because it destroys the body too quickly and violently.

Obviously I'll happily accept a donor organ if I ever need one. It's not a contradictory thought process, the idea that I'll accept one but not give one, no more than saying I'll accept medical advice from a doctor but don't give out medical advice myself.

"Hacked to pieces"

"Quickly and violently"

Are you for real? Have you read the whole thread, people sharing their stories of donating their loved ones organs, and also cremation?

Have an opinion, by all means, but if you think that language is OK on such a sensitive subject you have more to worry about in the 'afterlife' than organ donation 😡