Organ donation

[Mumguilt12]

After a recent death in the family, Me and DH were chatting about our death and funeral plans etc. Cheery huh!

Anyway, I said the songs I wanted played at my funeral. And I am absolutely clear that if my organs can be donated, they should be. All of them.
If not, I’d like to donate my body to science. I’d like to be cremated.

He thinks organ donation is not nice. “I dont want them to cut me up etc” I am absolutely shocked by his negative feelings towards it.

I said if our kid needed a new heart, would he accept it and he said he would. Now I believe if you are willing to take, you should be willing to give.

He is certain that he finds it all a bit wrong and it’s not nice for the family left behind. I also said that I completely disagreed and I personally would find comfort in knowing my relative had saved a life.

I know it’s silly but a) if I go, I don’t trust him to follow my wishes b) I’m judging him. How can you not want to help a sick person?! I don’t get it.

He comes from a religious family although himself is not really into it (other than a general belief in god). Not sure if that’s part of his thoughts.

It’s really made me look at him in a different light. AIBU?

It’s times like these that I think we are really not compatible. I really value kindness and thinking of others and he… really doesn’t.

@Mumguilt12

People wouldnt help push a car when they see a man struggling? It was literally right in front of us and blocking a side road completely.

He didn’t have strength to push it up hill. When my DH helped the man was so extremely grateful.

It was in daylight in the middle of town if that makes a difference.

Cars break down, you call breakdown services you don’t need to push it home uphill. In the middle of most towns you wouldn’t be able to stop without causing further obstruction yourself.

Regarding organ donation, he has a different view to you, he is entitled to that. I find your sanctimonious attitude far more off putting than his view. He should respect your views if that day should come of course but there is no reason to believe he would not. If he had said he won’t respect your wishes, then you would have something to complain about, but he hasn’t, he has just expressed his own.

I didn’t expect mumsnet to be split quite so much. There seems to be people that are very pro organ donation usually because they have direct experience.

And people that are “my body, my rules. How dare you suggest otherwise”

Of course if it came to it I would not go against my husbands wishes. But a little bit of me does raise an eyebrow at people willing to accept a donation but not willing to even consider donating themselves with no logical reason as to why. People get very defensive.

And I’m entitled to my opinion, just as others are entitled to theirs. It’s not a major deal and ive Realised that DH is kind in other ways and we will agree to disagree in this case.

However organ donation kinda seems like a no brainer to me. After all, you don’t even know you’ve done it… because you are already dead. And you might just help a person in need, and their family. And your family might get comfort too.

Not wanting to donate your own doesn not mean peroan is against organ donation. Just against their own organ donation.
I cannot imagine anyone arguing against organ donation in general.

we will agree to disagree in this case.
Yeah, that's the way forward.

We don't need to understand why someone is uncomfortable with it. As long as they are not telling others not to do it, but keep it to their own body.

@Xenobitch, @XDownwiththissortofthingX and @Nat6999: are you honestly saying that if you got told your only chance of survival was an organ transplant, you'd tell your families that you're turning it down? If you have children, would you really tell them that you're choosing to leave them without a mother? If it were a member of my family I'd beg them to take the organ; I think most people would.

I've never known anyone who died (or whose loved one died) because they turned down an organ transplant on principle, yet just about every time this discussion comes up, several people insist they'd do just that. Are there any statistics on how common it is?

However organ donation kinda seems like a no brainer to me. After all, you don’t even know you’ve done it… because you are already dead. And you might just help a person in need, and their family. And your family might get comfort too.

I'll be honest here.

I have had 2 of my dc die. I was able to donate my sons organs, I wasn't able to donate my daughters.

To me, after their deaths I felt the same. When they got cremated I didn't feel 'better' about his death than hers.

People kind of expect you to be happy that people are out there and alive because of my sons heart or lungs. I know I'm supposed to find it comforting. I don't at all, given the choice, again, I know it sounds selfish, I would have my little boy back every single time.

I watch videos of men walking women down the aisle when he has her fathers heart, or teddy bears with recordings of someone's child's heartbeat after donation, and I couldn't think of anything worse than to meet the people who my sons organs were donated to. I have a vague description of who got what, and one person, some years later, did want to contact me but I declined.

Don't get me wrong, if I had to choose to donate organs again, I probably would. But its wrong to think that it's particularly comforting to all families afterwards. The process itself was pretty traumatic for me also. The team were lovely, and they fulfilled my daft requests, but it was hard going.

My kids know that I would donate my organs, however I have left the choice up to them entirely, because they are the ones who will have to live with the choice and the process afterwards.

@LateDecemberBackInLowB12, you don't sound selfish at all.

@LateDecemberBackInLowB12

What youve written makes perfect sense.. To be honest, and I say this as gently as I possibly can to anyone reading, you'd have to be utterly fucking heartless (or hard of thinking) to respond to Late's post with a "yes, but..."

But a little bit of me does raise an eyebrow at people willing to accept a donation but not willing to even consider donating themselves with no logical reason as to why. People get very defensive.

A) there doesn't need to be a logical reason and B) people get defensive because of the "rais[ing] an eyebrow" attitude from others.

I cannot imagine anyone arguing against organ donation in general.

Of course people do, to think that the concept of organ donation does not raise moral and religious issues for people is incredibly naive.

@Whitefire

I cannot imagine anyone arguing against organ donation in general.

Of course people do, to think that the concept of organ donation does not raise moral and religious issues for people is incredibly naive.

Yes, but that is usually for their own organs, not "no one should be giving organs". Ok I generalised there in true mn fashion. Let me rephrase. I cannot imagine many people arguing against organ donation in general.

Once you're dead you're dead. You don't need those tissues anymore why condemn someone else to more misery because of a misplaced belief in a book that's never been proven to be true.

It is not my responsibility or that of my family to ensure someone else's happiness after my death. It is neither for you to declare that this is, in your words, due to misplaced belief.

This goes back to my point above about people getting defensive, organ donation should be because that is what the person wishes to happen and their survivors are accepting of it too, not because of what is little more than bullying and belittling like has been shown on this thread.

This goes back to my point above about people getting defensive, organ donation should be because that is what the person wishes to happen and their survivors are accepting of it too, not because of what is little more than bullying and belittling like has been shown on this thread.

Amen to that

In all likelihood, I would accept an organ if I needed one. I would be reluctant to accept a blood transfusion unless it was essential (eg could I have IV iron instead, could surgery be deferred to allow it time to work and my Hb to improve? What would happen if I said no (a family member had a transfusion during chemo because the Hb needed to be 100, their Hb was 99)? Would a transfusion reduce risk or merely improve symptoms?).

I'm not keen on the idea of donating, though. I know my family would find it traumatic knowing that my organs (and I know they would be useless to me at that point) were being removed. I haven't opted out. I don't like the idea of opt-out and I actually believe that there needs to be a legal challenge to this as there is no other medical procedure where opt-out is acceptable. I might be a little more inclined to donate if I could set some conditions to it (for instance, I looked after a patient who was on the transplant list for a kidney. The patient had received a kidney from a relative but hadn't taken the anti-rejection medication so the transplant failed. I wouldn't want someone like that to receive my organs or those of my family if I was the one being asked). It's nothing to do with religion or being squeamish, but concern over the trauma my family would go through and my family, whom I know and love, take priority over the needs of someone I have never met.

I'm not an unkind person, though. I have donated many, many units of blood, have spent countless hours over many years volunteering for a charity and I have worked many unpaid hours of overtime in the NHS.

I think something that is never vocalised in these sorts of debates ( apart from covid vaccinations of course) is that many people have a fear of government and those in positions of power and in this case of medical professionals.

We all put our trust in them at that point of sickness and death when it comes down to it there is the fear that when faced with a life to save or to let the life go in order to use organs for half a dozen other people ( for financial reasons or to meet targets) the medical person might choose the latter.
Or in a world where money matters organs could become lucrative items.

It’s horrible to say but honestly I think that’s where a lot of reluctance comes from. Mistrust of those in power and fear of organ harvesting.

Having a system of opt in means that at that life or death moment the surgeon or whoever has no idea as to whether they can use those organs for another and therefore must only focus on the life in front of them.

I’m not saying it’s right or a well founded fear but I think that’s where it comes from and just isn’t articulated well

A) there doesn't need to be a logical reason and B) people get defensive because of the "rais[ing] an eyebrow" attitude from others.

If someone would accept an organ but wouldn't donate one, there isn't really any way around it: that person is a hypocrite. I've tried to think of a way to sugar-coat that, but I can't.

My sister donated her organs. It gives me comfort she’s helped save others. You have to die on life support to be able to donate so it’s a slim chance anyway.

I don't want to be a donor. It's weird that this is one of those things that you need to justify to people.

I think people have to look at it realistically. There are about 6k people waiting for transplant.
500-600k people die a year. About 3.5k transplants happen a year. I think it's close to 30 million people on the register.
So about half. Going with that and adding some conservativness to it, out of that 500k people who die annually, 150k+ are most likely ropelted in.

Not being registered donor is not as bad as some are making out. Chance of the organs being usable is miniscule as is a chance of needed a transplant.

I can understand you being surprised if it's the first time that the topic has come up and you'd just assume that he'd have a rational thought process and have similar opinions to yours.
Given that you don't, but it's only just arisen - it doesn't seem the most obvious 'how can we possibly stay together, totally incompatible" thing.
Why not just accept that you have differing opinions, and respect each others wishes - and agree that you will do so when one of you dies - without that, he could over ride your wishes if you die first.

And think about the age you should talk to your child about this - early / mid-teens? they equally have the right to male their own decision.

Why would I possibly want to receive an organ from someone who was coerced or forced? That's morally the same as taking organs from prisoners or people murdered to order. It is barbaric to advocate for such a thing.

However organ donation kinda seems like a no brainer to me. After all, you don’t even know you’ve done it… because you are already dead. And you might just help a person in need, and their family. And your family might get comfort too.

By that logic, once someone is dead why do we care about respecting their body? Why do we care when someone is dismembered or subjected to vile acts after death? Why do families care when their loved one's remains cannot be located or retrieved or identified?

By your logic, all of that is inconsequential because they're dead so no longer afforded humanity.

Of course it matters. Your lack of empathy is disturbing from someone claiming to be so very concerned about kindness.

@Whitefire

I cannot imagine anyone arguing against organ donation in general.

Of course people do, to think that the concept of organ donation does not raise moral and religious issues for people is incredibly naive.

I think people who can't imagine someone having different views because they are so confident their view is right are arrogant, narrow minded and rather insular.

They should speak to more people from different backgrounds. And consider why saying those views might simply be taboo, and people may be unwilling to be honest in their view - precisely because they will get jumped on by those with the 'morally superior' view. As demostrated in this thread by several posters.

My dad had a kidney transplant at 18, a 2nd kidney transplant at 24 and a heart transplant at 40. He was told the heart would last 6 years. He died 5 weeks ago at 64.

In my opinion, people who are squeamish about organ donation are just self involved. Your family do not see your empty carcass. You're sewn up and dressed nicely before you are burned or buried.

Obvious I'm a bit sensitive about it but I LITERALLY wouldn't be here if everyone felt the same as your OH and my dad wouldn't not have had those 4 very fulfilling decades either.
I think his view is very selfish.

I've talked to people who are so traumatised by receiving an organ and knowing someone else died to keep them alive that they are not able to live.

It is not as simplistic or black and white as the posters with no actual experience of this being real are making out.

People can and do decline transplant surgery, just as people can and do decline other life saving interventions such as chemotherapy, CPR, transfusion, other surgeries, etc.

@RedToothBrushi have later corrected it into most
This was the whole bit
^Not wanting to donate your own doesn not mean peroan is against organ donation. Just against their own organ donation.
I cannot imagine anyone arguing against organ donation in general.^
I am actually on the side of people having a choice

I wiuld also like to add that that was said because people keep using "against organ donation" rather than "don't want to donate"