Organ donation

[Mumguilt12]

After a recent death in the family, Me and DH were chatting about our death and funeral plans etc. Cheery huh!

Anyway, I said the songs I wanted played at my funeral. And I am absolutely clear that if my organs can be donated, they should be. All of them.
If not, I’d like to donate my body to science. I’d like to be cremated.

He thinks organ donation is not nice. “I dont want them to cut me up etc” I am absolutely shocked by his negative feelings towards it.

I said if our kid needed a new heart, would he accept it and he said he would. Now I believe if you are willing to take, you should be willing to give.

He is certain that he finds it all a bit wrong and it’s not nice for the family left behind. I also said that I completely disagreed and I personally would find comfort in knowing my relative had saved a life.

I know it’s silly but a) if I go, I don’t trust him to follow my wishes b) I’m judging him. How can you not want to help a sick person?! I don’t get it.

He comes from a religious family although himself is not really into it (other than a general belief in god). Not sure if that’s part of his thoughts.

It’s really made me look at him in a different light. AIBU?

It’s times like these that I think we are really not compatible. I really value kindness and thinking of others and he… really doesn’t.

@MordredsOrrery

It's a hugely personal decision and, for me, both your decisions are fine as you've had a chance to think about it. But don't forget that people can change their minds, life experiences can give a different perspective.

Hypotheticals like an imaginary sick child aren't overly helpful as it's impossible to know how you'd react in a situation with that much emotion. I've actually opted the DC out because (1) it's a decision I'd rather they made for themselves when they're old enough to understand, and (2) because if the worst were to happen I know we'd be asked to consider donating regardless of the register so there's always an opportunity to opt in at that point.

Hi @MordredsOrrery - are your children very young? I think from your post, you already know that the opt out system for organ donation doesn’t apply to children (or those under 18 in England, under 16 in Scotland)

Rather than actively opting your children out (this is still considered as you making a decision on their behalf), could you instead leave their details off the register but be prepared to talk with them about organ donation - at an age you feel they are ready -and support them to decide whether to say yes (to support donation) or opt out?

As you can probably tell, I work in organ donation. I decided not to add my children to the register at birth, but instead to wait until they were old enough to decide for themselves. In my eldest’s case they decided this was something they wanted to do aged 5 after seeing my card in my purse and hearing some of the stories we see about organ donation in the news.

My youngest does not yet have the understanding but both me and my husband are on the register, and we have made it clear to relatives that if anything should happen to us as a whole family, or the children if sadly we die before them, then we would both be willing to support donation. It is important to consider all these scenarios, as sadly things like this can happen.

If my husband would judge me based on my decision about my body and think it is 'morally wrong' I would leave. Who do you think you are to enforce your opinions on such a private matter to other humans? With your body you can do whatever you like.
Btw, I am pro organ donation, but I would never dream of thinking it is 'morally wrong' not to donate.

Hi @justyouwaitandseeagain I didn't know that in detail, I just know that whatever option it was called about organ donation it was the no option I chose, I didn't realise you could leave it and they would stay off the register until older.

However, opting out or not adding in the first place is the same no decision (in my mind) on their behalf until they're able to understand and choose for themselves. And if a decision were needed before they're old enough to choose, as parents we'd still be asked in the moment in either scenario, and I have no idea what choice I'd make in that situation - it's one I desperately hope to never find myself in.

The DC are young (just school age), neither yet has the understanding for this conversation due to age and SEN. I fully expect to discuss organ donation with them when they do have the understanding and to respect whatever decision they make. I also expect that should they ever change their minds about their decisions at a later date I would support that, too.

I don't think of it as a one-time decision, people change over time through education and experience and so can opt in or out depending on what they feel is appropriate for them at different points.

It's his decision but I would not respect anyone who says they are happy to take an organ if they needed it but would not donate.

I had an ex who said he wouldn't donate his organs. When I look back that argument we had about that was the beginning of the end. I couldn't get my head around how selfish he was.

I understand people get squeamish about how organs are harvested.

I don't judge if people withhold consent.

For me, I came from nothing, and I'll go back to nothing. I don't have any problems with how the medical community use my body, because I am not really "there" anymore. Probably I won't be good enough for organ donation (long-term medical issues) but some bits might be useful for research.

I’m not sure people have understood that you still don’t get the final say either by opting in or opting out. It’s still your next of kin’s choice and that won’t be overridden.

If your spouse is against organ donation, you’ve got more to worry about regarding whether they would allow your organs to be donated in the event that you died first.

As more medical advances have been made, so has people's sense of entitlement. However this is now not just over specific treatments, but also feeling entitled over other people's bodies. No one has a right over others in this situation.

@PurpleDaisies

I’m not sure people have understood that you still don’t get the final say either by opting in or opting out. It’s still your next of kin’s choice and that won’t be overridden.

If your spouse is against organ donation, you’ve got more to worry about regarding whether they would allow your organs to be donated in the event that you died first.

You don't need to be against organ donation not to want to donate yours. You can just simply not want to do that with your body.

There should be respect on both sides and next of kins should respect the dead's wishes whichever way they were.

The second part of your post goes the other way around as well. Zeeing as some people are so "kind" in here, if I was the spouse who did not want to donate, I would be pretty worrid the kidness doesn't apply to my bpdy and decisions...

Tbh, if next of kin can just override it, what's the point of asking people anyway.

Organ donation is one of those things where the stance a person takes can have nothing to do with kindness, logic, normal moral code etc etc, for some it is but for some it's more of a visceral inexplicable thing in terms of whether they would want it or not.
I am very ambivalent about it. I'm not sure where it comes from. I think about it from time to time, like when this thread ops up and never get past that I am not sure if I would ever take or give an organ. I have eventually settled on 'I won't know until I'm in that situation' and left it at that. After much soul searching. I am usually very phiulanthropic and logical. I have no idea why this issue is so out of character.

So, I personally think you need to not see his pov as symptomatic of some kind of character flaw, file it under human anomoly and move on.

The only sentence you said that I thought was worth digging into and asking yourself questions about was your last one - the he's kind and I'm not and I value kindness (gist).

I'm confused. The law has changed recently hasn't it?? I though everyone was now opted in to donating any body tissue on their death unless specifically opting out.

Once your dead your dead. You don't need those tissues anymore why Condemn someone else to more misery because of a misplaced belief in a book that's never been proven to be true.

The second part of your post goes the other way around as well. Seeing as some people are so "kind" in here, if I was the spouse who did not want to donate, I would be pretty worried the kindness doesn't apply to my body and decisions...

Yes, that’s true but that’s not the position the op is in.

Kindness comes in a lot of forms anyway. It’s probably not kind to your grieving spouse to try to force them to endure your organs being donated (or not) if they’re not ok with that. Because of the nature of the organ donation process, you can make your wishes known but ultimately you still have to trust they’ll be on board with what you wanted.

I don’t have a strong opinion. I’d like to donate my organs but realistically, for that to happen it’s likely to be in pretty devastating, shocking circumstances for my family and I wouldn’t judge anyone who couldn't consent. I’d be dead so it’s not as if it would really still matter to me.

Yes, that’s true but that’s not the position the op is in.
She is, just as that "kind" one.

Yy to the rest

We have spoken about it a bit more and I do respect his decision. I really hope he respects mine too.

By “kindness”, I can give a few more examples. So once we were driving past a car that had pulled over. There was a lady standing over a man that was having a fit partially hanging out the passenger seat. We both saw it. Only I demanded we stopped so I could help. I’m pretty sure he would have just driven on. I recently made him go and help someone’s car that had broken down in front of us. It involved pushing it up a slope. I don’t think he would have done unless I suggested.

However, he is kind in other ways. He’s extremely kind to friends and is a long-standing volunteer at a charity.

I guess I’m just a bit more willing to assist a complete stranger!

My family know that I want any bits of me to be used after my death for the good of another person. My DH and kids all feel the same way. My mother died of kidney failure and if I can stop another child having to go through what I went through (having my mother die when I was a child) then I am all for donation. My organs are no good to me after death, so I don't get what the issue is.

He isn't unkind. Just logical. Lady 99% called an ambulance already (also just to add from info gathered on MN, if he was by himself, he should totally not go anywhere near a woman because the could scare her more, you know as a man🤷🏻), i wouldn't stop to push someone's car unless they were obvious danger to them or others...
I did opt in before automatic opt in for organ donation tho.

It's called being human. We are not perfect and no, we don't all need to keep doing "kidness" to strangers to be considered acceptable.

By “kindness”, I can give a few more examples. So once we were driving past a car that had pulled over. There was a lady standing over a man that was having a fit partially hanging out the passenger seat. We both saw it. Only I demanded we stopped so I could help. I’m pretty sure he would have just driven on.

Do you or your Dh have particular training in this area?

I recently made him go and help someone’s car that had broken down in front of us. It involved pushing it up a slope. I don’t think he would have done unless I suggested.

Neither would most people.

You’ve got low a high bar for what counts as unkindness.

Sorry that last sentence was a mess.

You’ve got quite a low bar for what counts as unkindness. I would say pretty much nobody would be kind according to you.

Yeah I do tend to let emotions get better of me and he is much calmer and measured in his approach to things.

Going back to organ donation, I think if anything happened to me, my other family members and friends would help him make the decision anyway. They know what I would like too.

I posted on mumsnet because the initial “no way” from him shocked me a bit. I know it’s a theoretical question that probably won’t come true anyway.

People wouldnt help push a car when they see a man struggling? It was literally right in front of us and blocking a side road completely.

He didn’t have strength to push it up hill. When my DH helped the man was so extremely grateful.

It was in daylight in the middle of town if that makes a difference.

No, I wouldn’t stop. I might for a lone woman.

And the man having a fit, he had known epilepsy. The woman was his mother and she needed help moving him as she wasn’t strong enough to get him out the car. He was half in and out the door in quite a dangerous position. She had already called an ambulance but needed strength to help move a fully grown adult to a safer position. Shortly after a bloke stopped and she helped move him. I’m quite short and not strong and I’m not sure I would have been as helpful as the man that stopped.

@Notimeforaname

Well when you die and if you're embalmed, they obliterate your organs with a trocar anyway. So bit of a waste to not give them ...on the off chance they are suitable of course

I never thought about it like this before, but it is so true!

I’m a believer in donating, I won’t need anything after I die.

@Makinglists

We lost Ds1 earlier this year and he became a donor and 5 people are alive because of him. Totally respect his feelings but for the grieving left behind it gives us hope that he lives on.

I'm so very sorry for your loss. You have done a wonderful thing. My Dad is currently on the kidney transplant list and it's because of people like you that he has a chance to survive, Thank you

@Mumguilt12 it doesn't matter. It's not unkind not to atop. Ghere are millions of reasons not to stop no matter what situation and most don't make person unkind.
Howwver, it is bit different since you knew the woman and the man personally. I would stop for someone I know