Just sat outside in my car

[Memoriesofanoldlife]

No idea what to do.
Dd, 3, has started pre school a couple of weeks ago, she cries not to go, cries when she gets there, not too bad when I pick her up, still says she doesn’t like it there.
Today when getting her ready, she again said she didn’t want to go, she said she doesn’t like the teachers because they always shout at her. I asked her why they shout and she said because she won’t sit down and keeps blowing raspberries etc.
She’s really bright, but also a stubborn bugger and fights against doing anything she doesn’t want to. I’ve been struggling with her since around spring, when she became really strong.
She takes a long time to go to sleep and her tiredness definitely affects her behaviour.
She doesn’t understand why she has to sit down if she doesn’t want to and says she’s worried to do plasticine and activities etc at the table.
I feel really sad for her, but also being a teacher, understand the job they have to do and how she’s probably difficult for them.
I’m trying to be extra strict/firm with her.
Just sat here crying as no idea where I’ve gone wrong. My friends kids all started at different pre schools and they’re all loving the freedom, I’ve barely had any as pick her up early as know how things will have gone.
Do I persevere? Is she maybe too young and I try again next September? (Where we are they don’t start school until 6, so it would be pre school) I’m currently a Sahm so she doesn’t *Have to go or should I keep on.

You posted about this recently.

I think tbh she’s not happy there, for whatever reason, and now has bad associations with nursery and you are also very anxious about her being in nursery, if she’s ready for it etc.

Just pull her out, have a break and perhaps try again after Christmas in a different setting.

You're not "giving in" to her OP. You're responding to her individual needs as only you can. It's not normal to be so upset at that age and, since you have the option to keep her at home, that sounds best all round. People who often say to persevere are in the position that they have little choice and, understandably, put a bit of a spin on it.

Have you considered ADHD? Mine was exactly like this until diagnosed and medicated.

Shes 3. If what she needs is to be with you then let her. Our society is utterly insane for going against whats natural for our children just because it fits in with the modern cultural norm. The only reason pre schools were set up was to get women back to work. In our grandparents time it was just as natural for one parent to stay at home with their kids.
She’s being very clear about her needs to you.

I think labelling a child at three as naughty and badly behaved is probably setting to yourself up for failure as they will always carry that label with them. I’ve taught kids from 1-18 including with disabilities (and adults) and in a second language as well. Three was always the most difficult age - this was mainly because some three year olds take longer to mature and are more like toddlers who are too independent to listen to everything and they don’t quite have the understanding or maturity of a 4 or 5 year old. Plus it really depends on the teacher as well - not everyone is suited to that age or child and I will readily admit that there were children who I struggled with who would be absolute angels with my colleagues and vice verse - but we NEVER shouted at children at this age and if they are a good nursery they will be observing and implementing techniques so that your child has the best experience. I would have a chat with the teachers and get a feel of them, it’s absolutely ok to pull your child out of nursery if you don’t think she’s ready, try a different nursery to see if she settles in better, or send her one day a week and have her at home the rest of the days.

Thank you everyone. I picked her up early today, she came out quite happily, but then started to cry 🤷🏻‍♀️Said she’d played with the pretend food today.
I’ve arranged a meeting for next week, it’s coming towards the end of the month, my instinct is to take her out until next September, they’ll likely try to convince me otherwise and all is ok as it’s a fee paying place.
Feeling bit down about it all, others kids seem to be so happy (albeit at other places that are too expensive for our budget sadly-nursery attached to private schools)

It’s so strange though as out of all the kids in our friendship group, we all thought she’d be running in. She’s so confident and independent, when we went to look around, she actually cried because she didn’t want to leave. She’s never been clingy to me or cried for me, but she’s not been away from me, I’ve always been in the background if she’s needed me.

@rhonddacynontaf I’ve just looked stimming up. To me, it’s almost like she’s developed a habit of blowing raspberries, like she can’t stop sometimes, she does it more when tired and also does funny faces with her tongue (something seen on tv too) I’ve no idea if this is just a child copying or she can’t stop herself. Her mind is so active and it’s always been so hard to get her to sleep, although she sleeps well when actually asleep. I feel like she’s constantly tired but can’t sleep
Is this a sign too?
She’s fine with food and textures etc, dislikes loud noises but I think that may be common in toddlers?

I would take her out. No need to make her life miserable.

Also if possible find a new school next time you try. When she's 4 or 5.
In the new school - big it up - and try for a phased return -
1hr first week
2hrs next week
then a morning. Look for her to be excited. Try montessori.

They should be happy to go in - buzzing about the idea and full of the fun things they did and are going to do. If they aren't then the school is just not right for them. Or there is something badly wrong at the school. I'm a teacher too and we both know what some staff can be like. T who are mean to infants really piss me off btw and I teach teens.
3 years is a long time to be miserable especially at her age.

You need to put your child's needs first not just go with the flow. And ignore those who say she'll come round - she'll get resigned to the misery of it is all that'd happen.

Is the education system where you are - (not UK because of age 6 clue) very strict?

Please try not to feel down about it or compare her to other children - it’s not the end of the world if she starts next September. Can she do something like a play group which is just a couple of hours a few days a week? Nurseries are a very intense environment and I personally think children benefit from a less strict routine anyway - soon she’ll be in school so just try to enjoy the time with her!

I find lots of parents say their child is ‘really bright’ these days! I think praising for good behaviour and also being firm that she has to behave, is important.

It might be the setting rather than her. I was going to suggest a nursery, some preschools are just far too regimented for young children. Preschools have a lower ratio of staff to children than nurseries in the UK. Expecting them all to conform might be because they don’t have the staff to provide any individual attention. Would you be able to do just a couple of mornings in another setting instead? They are expected to sit for some things in UK nurseries- eating, circle time, registration but there’s a huge amount of free play too. And if they don’t sit I don’t think they make such an issue of it as you are experiencing. If you can’t change I’d think about just trying next year instead. Also as an intelligent child she’s probably worked out that you’re at home and she doesn’t have to be there. I don’t think you should make her but it is a bit different to if they and you know that you’re not available, that may be part of the reason that others go more easily

Writing without reading all comments so sorry if it’s a repeat. If you’re a SAHM, could you offer to do some support for her in the classroom as a TA? My friend does this, in the same class as her DD who is chronically shy and clingy. There is safety in terms of mum being there and she has moved towards playing with other children more and more.

they’ll likely try to convince me otherwise and all is ok as it’s a fee paying place.

If they are even in the least bit decent they will have a waiting list. If they are trying to hold on to a child they are allegedly shouting at all the time, the fees won’t matter to them.

@1AngelicFruitCake

I find lots of parents say their child is ‘really bright’ these days! I think praising for good behaviour and also being firm that she has to behave, is important.

After reading the full thread it sounds like it’s a particularly strict setting and not suiting your child.

@endofthelinefinally

You can build in quieter, sitting activities at home over the next year. I think anxiety is really damaging to little children.

Agree. I regret sending in my daughters at three, particularly the youngest. She was very anxious about school for a long time, and would have been far happier at home with me, and me with her !

Preschools have a lower ratio of staff to children than nurseries in the UK

The required ratio for staff to children aged 3-5 is the same whether you call yourself a nursery or a preschool. If statistically Preschools have a lower ratio of staff to children than nurseries in the UK, it is because the stats are skewed by younger children who need a higher ratio.

No private nursery is stuffing their pre-school rooms with extra staff. In my experience, when DD went to both a pre-school and a private nursery at the same time, the pre-school was actually better in terms of staffing as they had access to the LA provision for addition support staff for kids with SEN, whereas the private nursery had no access and had to pay for extra staff. Ours made some provision but not the 1-1 she got at the pre-school.

Reading your description back it doesn’t sound like a particularly nurturing place. Sometimes my kids cried and said they didn’t want to go, sometimes they couldn’t wait that’s not unusual. The staff were always so kind and patient though, the kids were never shouted at and were really fond of the staff. Those who’ve trained in early years rather than general primary teaching can have quite a different outlook

I find lots of parents say their child is ‘really bright’ these days!

And also “spirited”

leave it another year, or even 2 she will learn to sit and she many 3 year olds prefer to play with just one friend rather than a load of others, there are ways of socialising that don't involve being one of a huge group. My son for example got on so much better with a friend or 2 rather than a big group. Honestly when he was a teen I was much happier that he was with just one or 2 friends rather than with a huge group, even if some of those friends were part of the huge group, it wasn't the same friends every time.

I think the expectation that all young children will love nursery and school is unrealistic. I have two children my eldest sailed through nursery and school, no problems. A different story with my second, however I kept him in school trying to please everyone else, they knew better, or so l thought, come 13 he was diagnosed with anxiety and panic disorder relating to school, and l had no choice but to de register him.
I wouldn't push her too hard too fast at this age. She is stil so young, it could do more damage than good. I.would also be mindful of comparing her behaviour with others her age, A lot could change over the next 12 months.
I personally think you would both be happier waiting another year, no rush.

My almost 4 year old ds just started preschool and he absolutely loves it. He cannot wait to run in every morning...this was his attitude from day one.

Before this and right up until this point, we had huge trauma trying to get him to leave us for settling in sessions/go to a nursery (had awful 3 month failed attempt at 2 years old where I walked away hiding my tears of frustration and heartache every single morning). We just couldnt get him to do things that ALL his peers were (I am a sahm too so it was purely for him that we tried).

I was convinced this sep at preschool would be an utter distaster. Honestly, he used to scream to the point of not being able to see me standing in front of him. So this sudden acceptance and pure joy at going in has shocked me.

I know his issues with preschool/nursery are slightly different to your little girl's (though I did think his extreme strong will and need to go his own way, always contributed) BUT my point is, it has worked now largely because finally the time is right (and yes, school is amazing)

I had so many worries about him getting behind with social interactions, getting bored, not doing what all his peers were...but they were unfounded.

If you don't have to put her in, and you have given it a good shot, then honestly take her out and wait. She will be ready one day soon. Enjoy your time with her

@BoredZelda

Preschools have a lower ratio of staff to children than nurseries in the UK

The required ratio for staff to children aged 3-5 is the same whether you call yourself a nursery or a preschool. If statistically Preschools have a lower ratio of staff to children than nurseries in the UK, it is because the stats are skewed by younger children who need a higher ratio.

No private nursery is stuffing their pre-school rooms with extra staff. In my experience, when DD went to both a pre-school and a private nursery at the same time, the pre-school was actually better in terms of staffing as they had access to the LA provision for addition support staff for kids with SEN, whereas the private nursery had no access and had to pay for extra staff. Ours made some provision but not the 1-1 she got at the pre-school.

I thought it was 1 to 13 with a qualified teacher and 1 to 8 without? My experience is the opposite to yours. Our nursery were one of the most expensive though and were never on minimum ratios. Also most of the children with SEN weren’t diagnosed until they started school at whatever the setting. I think it’s a leap to suggest that OPs daughter has SEN at the moment

OP I also agree with others that the difference between 3 and 4 is enormous, they change hugely

Keep her home if you can. Don't mention/dwell on school in conversation and work on areas for improvement subtly for next year.

She's your baby. She'll be big soon enough. No point in wasting time together and making both of you miserable . Xx