Just sat outside in my car

[Memoriesofanoldlife]

No idea what to do.
Dd, 3, has started pre school a couple of weeks ago, she cries not to go, cries when she gets there, not too bad when I pick her up, still says she doesn’t like it there.
Today when getting her ready, she again said she didn’t want to go, she said she doesn’t like the teachers because they always shout at her. I asked her why they shout and she said because she won’t sit down and keeps blowing raspberries etc.
She’s really bright, but also a stubborn bugger and fights against doing anything she doesn’t want to. I’ve been struggling with her since around spring, when she became really strong.
She takes a long time to go to sleep and her tiredness definitely affects her behaviour.
She doesn’t understand why she has to sit down if she doesn’t want to and says she’s worried to do plasticine and activities etc at the table.
I feel really sad for her, but also being a teacher, understand the job they have to do and how she’s probably difficult for them.
I’m trying to be extra strict/firm with her.
Just sat here crying as no idea where I’ve gone wrong. My friends kids all started at different pre schools and they’re all loving the freedom, I’ve barely had any as pick her up early as know how things will have gone.
Do I persevere? Is she maybe too young and I try again next September? (Where we are they don’t start school until 6, so it would be pre school) I’m currently a Sahm so she doesn’t *Have to go or should I keep on.

*I'd go with your gut on this and focus on you and your child - you get one shot at these years

I also wondered about ADHD - having recently been diagnosed myself I am intensely interested and hence see it everywhere. Is she able to focus intently on something that interests her, to the extent she “ignores” you when you call her? That would be a clue.

As to what you do about it - for now, just observe. If you see many things which are suggestive of ADHD it would be worth having a formal assessment, though I’m not sure at what age they can do that, and it may be different in a different country. But if diagnosed, there are strategies which will help both you and her, and medication makes a huge difference for many, more so when in a formal educational system when she’s older.

I’d say don’t panic, OP, but keep ADHD as a possibility in the back of you mind, to be explored at a later date if there are more pointers.

As to what you do now re pre-school - as a non-parent I am totally unqualified to venture an opinion, so I won’t.

@UtterlyUnimaginativeUsername

Honestly, it sounds to me as if she'd benefit from waiting a year. Sorry!

Agree totally. Three is far far too young. For both of you.

Okay I've worked with young pre school children for years.
Being shouted at to sit still for a 3 year old is absolutely disgusting!

Was just going to say the same thing! I worked in a nursery for five years, if anyone shouted at a child they would be in trouble! They is never a valid reason for a nursery worker to shout at a young child, unless they’re in danger and you’re trying to get their attention.

OP take your DD out of this preschool and keep her at home for a bit then find a setting where they can manage not to shout at young children.

I would go with what you feel inside. I know that might sound airy fairy, but she's not much more than a baby with years of school ahead of her. I would keep her with you, especially as you actually want that! She will probably be fine a year on. In my experience, with my first dc I felt like I should be getting him used to being away from me and with other kids, but we tried a couple of nurseries and he was just so unhappy. I remember 'rescuing' him from one nursery with an awful woman who had such a scowly miserable face I knew from the moment he started that he wouldn't like it, and we drove away like Thelma and Louise to our freedom!!! (Without the cliff edge bit.) He started a school nursery when he was 4 and was absolutely fine. It was a million times better for him. So with my 2nd dc I just waited til he could go to that same nursery and again he was fine too.
You know what's best for your child. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Good luck!

She's not scared to death if she's not doing as she's asked and is blowing raspberries!

You have no understanding of how children behave when under stress.

@Tangledtresses

Okay I've worked with young pre school children for years. Being shouted at to sit still for a 3 year old is absolutely disgusting!

3 year olds need structured and free play, activities, sand, water, outside space to play

At this age it's play play play with snacks, lunch and some quiet time or story time, book corners and home corner.

Not sitting still, not shouting, not telling off.
Obviously there have to be rules
No hitting shouting, sitting for lunch, quiet for story time.

Personally I'd take her straight out and keep her home with you until you can find somewhere more fitting for under 5,s

Absolutely agree.

I don't know where OP is but some countries are much stricter in their expectations but I think 3 year olds shouldn't be made to sit still for long periods.

OP keep her at home, sounds like she gets lots of input from you and other activities, what is she getting from this and what are you getting?

I kept mine at home till 8 as I felt even in the UK the expectation was harsh for young children. They settled in well at 8 despite everyone telling me they would never adjust if they had 8 years of freedom. I have no regrets, all have first class honours degrees and post grad qualifications and let's face it they'll never get those first 8 years of freedom back.

She is probably just a lively 3 year old, I think sometimes bright children have more issues adjusting to formal education as they challenge. If there is more behind it well it will still be there in a year or two but the chances are she will be fine.

My family mantra is "This too will pass." Usually when it passes it's replaced by something just as bad but a change is as good as a rest.

Good luck and enjoy this time with her.

Is this the same raspberry blowing near three year old in pre school outside the UK that a thread was started about last week using the user name @Fridayisntwhatitusedtobe ?
has anything changed since last Friday?

I’ve got a “spirited” (headstrong, impish, sometimes downright outrageously behaved) almost 5yo. He’s also v bright (doesn’t help with the previous)- BUT- he can (80% of the time) follow instructions in a classroom environment and loves nursery/now reception.

However headstrong your kid is, that doesn’t mean they aren’t unhappy or plain not ready for a more formal learning environment. I see lots of posts focusing on “lack of discipline” which I think is a red herring. If you take the behavioural info out of the post and just focus on her emotions and perception of the nursery, she just sounds unhappy and not ready?

To me anyway.

I’m surprised 3 year olds are being required to sit. There’s plenty of time for sitting later in life!

DS’ preschool didn’t even have chairs. They pottered around on different activities and moved between indoors and outdoors at will. There were beanbags for those who wanted to chill.

Perhaps this just isn’t the right setting, or the right time?

[quote BoredZelda]*I'd go with your gut on this and focus on you and your child - you get one shot at these years

This was probably me at nursery/preschool. Not naughty, but not questioning things and needing independence. A move to big school helped, but starting school early these days isn't possible.

I suggest you find a preschool that treats the kids differently - maybe a montessori one that encourages independence and independent thought. Or one attached to a big school that doesn't baby the kids.

I suspect your DD is too clever for this preschool and doesn't want to do baby things.

You metion the language thing. Is she in an environment where she does not speak the language of the other kids and is reliant on the teachers remembering to speak to her in English? If so that is going to be increadibly tough on her. I would be concentrating on getting her somewhere that she comfortably learn the local language - especially if she is going to be going to school in a school where the language is not her own. She is probably frightened at the table as there is probably alot of noise around her which she simply doesnt understand. Perhaps the raspberry blowing is her way of communicating rather like a baby smiles and cries?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4345519-Won-t-tell-me-what-happened

Funnily enough they managed to grasp that when they started school at 8

We don't start school at 8 here, we start it at 4 (or 5 in scotland) so your experience isn't relevant - unless this is in fact the same poster as last friday who was outside the UK.

She sounds like my three year old. She has just started preschool too. I´m in Spain by the way, and here school starts at six years old. I am main breadwinner, not sahm, so off to school it is. She tells me the school is big and it scares her and the teachers are frigtening (they are not). She has already been 2.5 years in nursery but the teachers tell me that sometimes three year olds feel a bit intimidated by the size of the place and also it seems the teacher told her she couldn´t dance in the middle of another activity. This basically boils down to being told no. My daughter is quite headstrong and has her own ideas. The first two days at school the teachers were amazed about how confident and happy she was, the third day it was al crying the whole morning and saying she didn´t want to go. I´ve been reading and implementing best practices at drop off and pick up, being positive about the school, it isn´t a punishment and letting her voice her worries and digging a little as to what is on her mind. Yesterday she was a bit tearful at drop off, but they said she turned around in class an was as happy as larry. Today tearful drop off again. She never ever cried at nursery, I think it is the change. If your kid has been at home the whole time, it may be even harder for her. Give her some time to adapt. She will in the end.

Also find a preschool with lots of outdoor activities and fewer sitting at a table doing plasticine - plasticine is not a required life skill.
You can get preschools with lots of forest school type stuff. In Scandinavia they have preschools that are all outside all the time - totally the norm, not like the sit down inside doing plasticine stuff the UK is obsessed with, and kids in Scandinavia turn out just fine as a population.

TLDR: She is in the wrong preschool, find a better/suitable one.

I’m interested to see that some people have mentioned ADHD. I read the first few of your messages OP and thought ‘she sounds just like DD3’. DD3 has just been diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 23.
She started being ‘confrontational’ and ‘stubborn’ at around 3 and I was a SAHM with two other under 5s at home who were an absolute doddle to deal with in comparison. DH used to get home and I’d be completely wrung out. She hated swimming lessons as a little child and behaved very much like your little girl is at nursery. I gave up taking her because we were both so miserable. She also had, and still has, sensory issues with certain foods and textures, so I wonder if this is why your DD doesn’t like plasticine?
Her school years from about 8 onwards (where they have to sit and concentrate for longer periods) were awful, but I loved the holidays with her when she could just be herself. Like your DD, she’s bright so was able to mask her real issues.
It may be that this isn’t what’s going on with your DD, but it’s worth considering? It may avoid her having a harder time at school than she might have?

We don't start school at 8 here, we start it at 4 (or 5 in scotland) so your experience isn't relevant

No, you can start school at 4/5. You don’t have to, many start later. Like the children of the poster you are talking to who said she kept hers at home until 8 in the UK.

@LizzieSiddal

She's not scared to death if she's not doing as she's asked and is blowing raspberries!

You have no understanding of how children behave when under stress.

Unless she's stressed at home as well, it's not that is it? OP says she's the same at home - struggling with her, stubborn and blowing raspberries If she's scared to death all the time then the problem's bigger.

3 is still little to be learning to "conform" in a nursery but some this sounds like a wilful 3 year old from the OPS own words. Not a terrified one.

In Scotland, nursery is all about play based learning as opposed to sitting down all the time. I don't think they do proper sitting down for table work until P1 (age 5) at the earliest. There are sitting down activities, but your DD shouldn't be forced into them if she doesn't want to at this early age.
She will have to learn to stop blowing raspberries soon though as this is very cheeky to nursery staff. Set those boundaries at home.

Just on the shouting, while I know that children can exaggerate things, my DS was in an independent primary school that sold itself on being wonderful and child centred. As the first year went on DS was telling me more and more that his teacher shouted at him a lot and I essentially dismissed his complaints. He was becoming really absent minded and wasn't following instruction well at home, so I put it down to his teacher having to be firm with him.

As it turned out the following year my DS was quite ill and needed help settling into school after missing a lot of days and also still not being fully well. He was becoming increasingly upset and distant. I was getting more worried about his school environment and went in more. Eventually witnessing how utterly awful this teacher was, screaming in the faces of children, pitting them against each other to belittle any child that was struggling, expecting them to complete work with no direction, etc. I really couldn't have imagined just how utterly foul an environment I'd put him into thinking that I was putting him somewhere really, really good for him.

So as much as we'd all like to imagine that classrooms/preschools/nurseries are all wonderful places these days, that are the best for our children. Even when our children are expressly telling us something is wrong, we can still feel like they are being stubborn and unrealistic, because the environment they are in is such a good one for them. But sometimes when our children tell us something is wrong and they really don't like being somewhere, they really are trying to tell us that something is very wrong.

In our case, lockdown came on the heels of finding out how bad my DS's school was. The time at home was really good for him in lots of ways. And now he's in a local school that he is thriving in. So if your DD can stay home for a year let her. And look for somewhere more suitable for her next year.

@PumpkinKlNG

My son hates school ever since he started in reception he use to scream his head off every morning not to go, I really regret sending him now looking back when I didn’t have to. School insisted it was “for the best” he’s in year 3 how and still hates it.

That seems a major concern. Children should not hate school; it's all playing and fun. Is the school some sort of high-intensity jail environment?

@endofthelinefinally

You can build in quieter, sitting activities at home over the next year. I think anxiety is really damaging to little children.

It is. It manifests itself later and it's not good. Follow your gut instinct. It's right.

@Tangledtresses

Okay I've worked with young pre school children for years. Being shouted at to sit still for a 3 year old is absolutely disgusting!

3 year olds need structured and free play, activities, sand, water, outside space to play

At this age it's play play play with snacks, lunch and some quiet time or story time, book corners and home corner.

Not sitting still, not shouting, not telling off.
Obviously there have to be rules
No hitting shouting, sitting for lunch, quiet for story time.

Personally I'd take her straight out and keep her home with you until you can find somewhere more fitting for under 5,s

I agree it sounds rather regimented. If there are more free-flowing options where you are, maybe try one?