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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

999 replies

HurryUpAndWait23 · 15/09/2021 14:21

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

OP posts:
Mischance · 15/09/2021 15:48

I think we have to accept that the Home Office and MI5 have information that leads them to decide she cannot come back. I have no doubt that she was groomed; but she was in it up to her neck and I doubt she will shake it off ever.

If she came back to UK I doubt she would be safe anyway - there will be those who wish her harm.

IglesiasPiggle · 15/09/2021 15:48

Hindley and the Wests were inconceivably worse than Begum. They were adults who actually murdered and tortured people, Begum was a groomed child who held awful opinions and has never murdered or tortured anyone.

It's not about who is worse. Terrorism is treated differently for good reasons. Countries are understandably more concerned by terrorists than your average murderers.

JasonMomoasgirlfriend · 15/09/2021 15:48

We give pedophiles and rapists chance after chance in this country. I don't think any UK citizen would want to give them chances!

So was it illegal for her citizenship to be stripped? I assume not

Plumtree391 · 15/09/2021 15:48

@HurryUpAndWait23

I guess when I watch this most recent one, I still have her previous interviews in mind and I can't shake that.
It's nice to see her looking like an ordinary girl at last.

At fifteen, she wouldn't have been able to see issues clearly. She was definitely groomed then.

I'd hate to be judged on how I felt about things when I was a teenager; I was very easily impressed in those days.

She didn't actually do anything personally that was violent as far as I know.

I hope she comes home soon and is able to lead a 'normal' life.

Just10moreminutesplease · 15/09/2021 15:49

She was a child who was groomed.

Grooming can be unbelievably powerful. Children are groomed into smuggling drugs, having sex with multiple people, violent crimes… and yes, joining terrorist organisations.

Whether you believe she should be able to return home or not, she deserves sympathy based on the fact that she was a manipulated child when she made a decision that has ruined her life.

EvenRosesHaveThorns · 15/09/2021 15:49

I heard a short snippet. Paraphrased, she said something like 'I can advise the UK gov how to combat terror attacks and grooming because it's obvious you don't know how to'. Humble would play better than braggadocio methinks.

IglesiasPiggle · 15/09/2021 15:49

Or even your not so average murderers.

gardeninggirl68 · 15/09/2021 15:50

I think she came across well in that interview

EvenRosesHaveThorns · 15/09/2021 15:50

Also, there's a lot of hidden info as to what she was seen to be videoed/photographed doing for ISIS that hasn't been released, according to the R4 bulletin

Toodlydoo · 15/09/2021 15:50

Someone also accused her of sewing people into suicide vests - but I wouldn’t put too much store by that I imagine anything less than enthusiastic participation would have had severe consequences.

leakymcleakleak · 15/09/2021 15:51

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

I don't know. I know plenty of young people who have literally no idea about anything. They don't know what ISIS is, what the EU is, they are just utterly ignorant. So I have no problem believing she was that ignorant. And also I don't find it hard to believe that she was groomed and radicalised at 15.

So does the age of criminal responsibility need to be changed?

nobody is saying she shouldn't be held criminally responsible. They're saying she shouldn't be stripped of her citizenship.

I have to say I do find it pretty shocking at a basic level that a 15 year old, born and raised in the UK, could be disowned legally in that way. She was vulnerable and radicalised - does that make what she did ok? Well, that's a decision as to whether any mitigation should be applied when she's tried on terrorism offences.

Should someone be made stateless for decisions made as a groomed child? I think its actually horrific people think that, and again, don't think that would apply in any other case. And agree entirely that if she was a blonde white teenager, with photogenic articulate middle class parents talking about how she had been exploited and radicalised without them realising, then responses would likely be different too.

Everhopeful · 15/09/2021 15:51

Whilst I agree she doesn't come across well, I think PTSD is probably part of the problem. I'm also puzzled why some of the men who actively fought for ISIS haven't had this done to them and most of them couldn't claim to be under age when they left, or confused in any way by what they were being asked to do. Can it simply be that they allowed themselves to look a bit sorry and that was enough? Is the world that simple? I don't think it was reasonable to make her stateless, even if she does have to do some time if/when we let her back: at least that way we have some chance to re-educate her. Right now, I could almost understand if it increased her sense of alienation. I simply haven't heard of anyone else in her position losing their citizenship and it feels wrong to single out one person for that dubious honour.

JasonMomoasgirlfriend · 15/09/2021 15:51

What is grooming?
Grooming occurs when someone builds a relationship of trust and an emotional connection with another person so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them. People who are groomed can be sexually abused, exploited, or trafficked

What is radicalisation?
Radicalisation is the process through which a person comes to support or be involved in extremist ideologies. It can result in a person becoming drawn into terrorism and is a form of harm.

For me, the word "groomed" doesn't sit well with me here. She was radicalised.

TableFlowerss · 15/09/2021 15:52

@MrsHound

I wish I could feel sorry for her but I don't. I feel sorry for those bereaved and maimed in the name of a religious ideology. She joined a terrorist organisation dedicated to destroying us and our western way of life. She should stop whining and fuck off.
I feel the same.
Droite · 15/09/2021 15:52

The level of intolerance on here for children who have been groomed is frightening.

CassandrasCastle · 15/09/2021 15:53

It's so hard to know - but I do agree with a previous poster that she should be brought back to the UK and face criminal investigation.

The fact that three of her children dies of malnutrition (I think) is terrible, and also - I don't quite know how to put this without sounding awful - a bit odd? She and her husband seemed to be ok re. food and supplies? Oh, who knows

JasonMomoasgirlfriend · 15/09/2021 15:53

And how would you ever know? She didn't actually do anything personally that was violent as far as I know.

Honestly...people think they know everything about what's gone on. We won't know even 5% of it.

Flatbellyfella · 15/09/2021 15:54

Plenty of room for her in Afghanistan along with the Taliban .

Droite · 15/09/2021 15:54

@Redgeraniums

The point is she needs to come back and go on trial. She’s not asking to come back for any other reasons. We take responsibility for how our citizens act regardless. We don’t just say. Nah leave you for some other numpty country to have to deal with. We need to deal with her
This, 100%
TooBigForMyBoots · 15/09/2021 15:54

She never comes across well but teenagers rarely do usually because they know it all so shes fairly typical in that sense. I hope she can come home to the UK as soon as possible. I think the government have been atrocious and racist in their handling of her case.Angry

MythicalBiologicalFennel · 15/09/2021 15:54

I don't care how she comes across. She is a British born-and-bred terrorism sympathiser, a problem created in the UK which should not be left for other, poorer countries to deal with.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 15/09/2021 15:54

It's incredible how many of you know Shamima and what her views are.

And how many of you are happy to deny people basic human rights, and not to see our justice system put to bear on a vitally important case.

We can't just dump our home-grown problems on other countries - imagine if terrorists and criminals from other countries who are in the UK couldn't be sent back because their home country says they are 'no longer their citizens'...

IglesiasPiggle · 15/09/2021 15:55

I don’t think you can compare this to Rotherham. In their propaganda Isis explicitly talk about re-instating slavery and were busy executing people and setting fire to them in cages, it was part of the recruiting, they weren’t hiding it. She was signing up to be part of an organisation that explicitly revelled in brutality and sexual slavery. She knew what they were. Rotherham girls didn’t sign up to ANYTHING.

I agree. There's no comparison. They go out of their way to advertise the beheadings, burnings, throwing people off buildings and other horrors that they perpetuate. There is no way that she was unaware of this.

Tabitha005 · 15/09/2021 15:56

I think I'd prefer her here in the UK where we can keep an eye on her. She's a liability. Also, she's a British citizen still, isn't she? The idea that any other country should have to deal with our British reprobates is a bit rich considering plenty of Brits demand immediate extradition for any non-UK national who so much as does a bit of shoplifting.

Droite · 15/09/2021 15:56

@Mischance

I think we have to accept that the Home Office and MI5 have information that leads them to decide she cannot come back. I have no doubt that she was groomed; but she was in it up to her neck and I doubt she will shake it off ever.

If she came back to UK I doubt she would be safe anyway - there will be those who wish her harm.

Quite why you would accept that of a Home Office presided over by Pritti Patel is mystifying. The reality is that they know that bringing her back won't play well with the Mail, Express, Sun and their readers and are scared they will lose votes.