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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

999 replies

HurryUpAndWait23 · 15/09/2021 14:21

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

OP posts:
Effzeh · 15/09/2021 15:14

@MrsTerryPratchett

Human rights are for everyone. And as a two time immigrant and dual national, it's enlightening how little some people feel our citizenships are worth. Mine are less than yours. I will always be half a citizen.
This. She's a British citizen from birth, and should have the right to come back and be tried here. There might be a case to be made for foreign-born people who have acquired British citizenship for nefarious purposes to have it stripped from them, but a brown person who is born British should have the same rights and responsibilities as a white person who is born British.

Otherwise we enter a world where some British citizens are more equal than others, and the 20th century gives us ample evidence of how things play out when we start thinking like that. Hmm

Redgeraniums · 15/09/2021 15:14

When did criminals need to be repentant

hangrylady · 15/09/2021 15:15

I don't think she gives a flying fuck, just saying what she thinks people want to hear. Some pink nail varnish and a baseball cap isn't fooling anybody.

Original poster
HurryUpAndWait23 · 15/09/2021 15:15

@Redgeraniums

When did criminals need to be repentant
When they are asking people to do them a huge favour.....
OP posts:
AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 15/09/2021 15:17

@vivainsomnia

The 15 year old who ran away with her teacher had so much press about being groomed, how she was innocent and couldn't possibly know that's all it was. She was deemed young, innocent and vulnerable despite coming from a good family, with no traumatic past, and being a clever girl.

Yet, Shamima with Avery different background is expected to have been mature enough to understand what she was getting into?

Of course the outcome was much worse in her case, but I fail to understand why she wasn't deemed anymore vulnerable and gullible than the other girl of the sane age.

Should we change the age for criminal responsibility?
Redgeraniums · 15/09/2021 15:17

I think most of the population really aren’t clever enough to understand this situation.

We should not be stripping people who are born here of their citizenship - ever.

She is only the second person this has ever happened to. And it’s worrying that people think it’s ok.

Blossomtoes · 15/09/2021 15:17

@Redgeraniums

I think a lot of people don’t understand how insidious grooming is. I think of the girls in Rochdale who were groomed horrifically and many of them for many years after supported their abusers, many didn’t even really realise they had been groomed until they had escaped.
There’s no comparison. She wasn’t groomed, she was radicalised - very successfully. She’s hard as nails and cold as ice. She can rot in Syria as far as I’m concerned.
KittenKong · 15/09/2021 15:17

I think running off with a romantic version of being with the ‘love of your life’ (I’m assuming a teen true life romance type thing) is a bit different here.

She has seen the videos of the pilots burned alive in cages, knew about the yaIdi and girls ;I haven’t read of her saying ‘I thought it was just propaganda’) and shrugged it off when asked about her seeing bits of bodies in bins when she was ‘just being a housewife’.

Her team are not doing a good job of showing ‘a remorseful young woman’ and maybe she genuinely isn’t - maybe she is sorry for herself, and would have stayed if it hadn’t all gone belly up. Now what though?

Redgeraniums · 15/09/2021 15:18

@HurryUpAndWait23
Eh? It’s not a favour to her to bring her back and charge her with acts of terrorism. It’s our duty as a nation

Sleeplessem · 15/09/2021 15:18

@Redgeraniums

I think most of the population really aren’t clever enough to understand this situation.

We should not be stripping people who are born here of their citizenship - ever.

She is only the second person this has ever happened to. And it’s worrying that people think it’s ok.

Yes!
plodalong12 · 15/09/2021 15:19

@vivainsomnia

The 15 year old who ran away with her teacher had so much press about being groomed, how she was innocent and couldn't possibly know that's all it was. She was deemed young, innocent and vulnerable despite coming from a good family, with no traumatic past, and being a clever girl.

Yet, Shamima with Avery different background is expected to have been mature enough to understand what she was getting into?

Of course the outcome was much worse in her case, but I fail to understand why she wasn't deemed anymore vulnerable and gullible than the other girl of the sane age.

Er…because one ran off with their adult teacher and one ran off to join a disgustingly violent and cruel terrorist organisation, that’s maybe why they’re judged differently.
JasonMomoasgirlfriend · 15/09/2021 15:21

She talks utter bollocks. Blame everyone but yourself. She knew exactly what she was doing and when it started to go wrong she wanted to come back
Oh what a surprise

Redgeraniums · 15/09/2021 15:21

It’s a cheap party political trick to make the government look like their taking a hardline.

When all they’re doing is abdicating responsibility for a known terrorist and handing it over to Bangladesh! What the fuck has Bangladesh got to do with any of this, no one in Bangladesh radicalised her! It was done here in this country

Viviennemary · 15/09/2021 15:22

One girl ran off with her teacher. Another joined a muderous organisations that tortures kills and rapes.

JasonMomoasgirlfriend · 15/09/2021 15:22

@Redgeraniums

I think most of the population really aren’t clever enough to understand this situation.

We should not be stripping people who are born here of their citizenship - ever.

She is only the second person this has ever happened to. And it’s worrying that people think it’s ok.

She had dual nationality though, didn't she? It's not like that would happen to someone who didn't have a dual nationality.
Whatinthelord · 15/09/2021 15:23

I think she should be brought back, if possible, and face a criminal investigation.I agree that she was possibly a victim of grooming, but also that she must have understood her actions were wrong to an extent.

I guess that’s the point of a criminal process…to look into the facts before find someone guilty.

The lack of due process concerns me. Leaving someone stateless is dodgy and shows a lack of responsibility from government. Similarly treating someone as guilty when they haven’t benn found guilty in a court is also problematic.

I don’t think that any way she acts will perceived kindly by people.
What is it that she could do or say to seem genuine. If she cried she’d be accused of crocodile tears.

IglesiasPiggle · 15/09/2021 15:23

There might be a case to be made for foreign-born people who have acquired British citizenship for nefarious purposes to have it stripped from them, but a brown person who is born British should have the same rights and responsibilities as a white person who is born British.
*
Otherwise we enter a world where some British citizens are more equal than others, and the 20th century gives us ample evidence of how things play out when we start thinking like that.* 

Jack Letts who is white was also stripped of his British citizenship.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49385376

Redgeraniums · 15/09/2021 15:24

It’s more expensive to prove her criminality in court, and better to get cheap votes from the back of it. Where is our international responsibility to other countries. She is a BRITISH problem.

Win win for the government and the not too bright people are lapping it up like it’s fucking gold top.

VaguelyInteresting · 15/09/2021 15:25

It’s not a favour to repatriate a person from a war zone who should legally be a British citizen.

She was a groomed child. If she was white woman you would be FAR more sympathetic. Her radicalisation was a failure of the British state and it’s our responsibility to bring her home, and either imprison her here if she’s found guilty of a crime without coercive control or diminished responsibility as a factor, or rehabilitate her.

It’s not only the moral and ethical “right thing” to do, it’s the ONLY legally justifiable thing to do.

IglesiasPiggle · 15/09/2021 15:25

One girl ran off with her teacher. Another joined a muderous organisations that tortures kills and rapes.

Yes. I think there's a slight difference here and it's not as though IS exactly hides their murderous intentions.

AuntMargo · 15/09/2021 15:25

@Jaysmith71

She's ours. We should take responsibility for her and bring her to book in a British court.
she is certainly not ours !!!
whataboutbob · 15/09/2021 15:25

I think one of her problems is she’s not very smart. She seems to have a knack of coming across as needy ( understandably) and quite calculating while simultaneously alienating opinion/ people who could help. If she showed genuine insight and remorse it might come across better.

RubyFakeLips · 15/09/2021 15:26

As a British citizen from birth she should be returned here and dealt with. Although my understanding is that it would be very challenging to put her on trial here as despite her actions being know, they are hard to prove in a legal setting.

Comparing her to the girl who ran off with the teacher or even the Rochdale girls is incorrect, unless they were also participating in the killing of innocents and genocide of yazidis.

She was radicalised, and we really need to put these people under further scrutiny. Usman Khan (London stabbing incident a few years ago), Salman Abedi, in fact nearly all recent UK terror atrocities, have been committed by people deemed not to be of that threat level. Sudesh Amman was another close call. Being radicalised and then being convincing at appearing to have changed mindset is nothing new.

SweetBabyCheeses99 · 15/09/2021 15:26

She was born here, radicalised whilst in the UK and she left to join some caliphate that’s not even a real country. She’s not a citizen of anywhere else, currently a refugee. If she presents herself to British embassy or border I don’t see under what law we can use to prevent a British citizen from re-entering the country? Yes you could immediately arrest her under terrorism laws I’m sure, but you can’t take away someone’s born citizenship and render them stateless. That would set a terrible legal precedent for the UK government to essentially take away anyone’s British citizenship, and for crimes they committed as a teenager at that!

Whatinthelord · 15/09/2021 15:27

@Redgeraniums

It’s more expensive to prove her criminality in court, and better to get cheap votes from the back of it. Where is our international responsibility to other countries. She is a BRITISH problem.

Win win for the government and the not too bright people are lapping it up like it’s fucking gold top.

Right
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