AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

[HurryUpAndWait23]

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

I don't believe or trust what she says. She hasn't change and she shouldn't be allowed back.

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend
Bangladesh have specifically said she is not a citizen- she could be through her mother. But no she isn’t. She might be eligible

She had dual nationality though, didn't she? It's not like that would happen to someone who didn't have a dual nationality.

You're happy for me and my child to be second class citizens then? 100% fine with some citizens having fewer rights and being lesser. Good to know. Being an immigrant is FUN.

Lack of remorse would be reflected in her sentencing. Just like every other criminal.

She’s a British citizen and was a groomed child, groomed in our country. She’s our ‘problem’ and we should take responsibility for her.

@AuntMargo

She is every bit as British as you or I. Did you say Myra Hindley wasn’t ours? Or Fred and rose west? Or the bulger killers? They were arguably worse than this girl- but nobody stripped them of their citizenship. Or denied them their British identity.

Wonder what that’s about?

I think Shamima should be allowed to come back to UK and should stand trial here.

However, I was a troubled and susceptible teenager and I was exploited by an adult and radicalised into a religion.

But I didn't lose all of my values and I was always horrified by any sort of violence or hatred.

So - I am just not sure what I think about her character.

@PatchworkElmer

She’s a British citizen and was a groomed child, groomed in our country. She’s our ‘problem’ and we should take responsibility for her.

I agree with this. She may be uncharismatic and unlikeable but the UK not accepting responsibility for its own citizens? Not acceptable.

I don't know. I know plenty of young people who have literally no idea about anything. They don't know what ISIS is, what the EU is, they are just utterly ignorant. So I have no problem believing she was that ignorant. And also I don't find it hard to believe that she was groomed and radicalised at 15.

I can't imagine what her life must be like now. Syrian prison camp must be fucking awful. If she is trying to change and better herself, then I support that. It's a huge mistake, but people do make huge mistakes. I think we will just have to wait and see what happens next.

She was a groomed child. If she was white woman you would be FAR more sympathetic. Her radicalisation was a failure of the British state

She was a radicalised young woman. I’d feel exactly the same no matter what colour she was. I’d really like you to explain to me how it was a failure of the British state. She chose to go.

How we deal with Shamima Begum should be nothing to do with the 'way she comes across'.

She is a British citizen, and is our responsibility. We should bring her home and deal with her here.

15 is old enough to know who ISIS are and what a terrorist is. She does need to stand trial however, she will not be safe in the UK. The second she steps off of a plane there will be a target on her back.

Reguarding the teacher grooming a pupil comment, this is not a girl who ran away with someone she had thought she was in love with. This was a group of girls running away to join a religious cult who preached death to everyone but themselves.

I don't know. I know plenty of young people who have literally no idea about anything. They don't know what ISIS is, what the EU is, they are just utterly ignorant. So I have no problem believing she was that ignorant. And also I don't find it hard to believe that she was groomed and radicalised at 15.

So does the age of criminal responsibility need to be changed?

I am completely torn on this. There's all the atrocities on one hand, her age and vulnerability on the other. I've got so say though, it really doesn't look like her on the video. I don't mean through the absence of hijab etc., she looks different facially. Maybe she's just lost weight or 'grown into' her face.

@MrsHound

I wish I could feel sorry for her but I don't. I feel sorry for those bereaved and maimed in the name of a religious ideology. She joined a terrorist organisation dedicated to destroying us and our western way of life. She should stop whining and fuck off.

Perfectly put!

@MrsTerryPratchett

She had dual nationality though, didn't she? It's not like that would happen to someone who didn't have a dual nationality.

You're happy for me and my child to be second class citizens then? 100% fine with some citizens having fewer rights and being lesser. Good to know. Being an immigrant is FUN.

Lack of remorse would be reflected in her sentencing. Just like every other criminal.

You didn't join a terrorist organisation did you? So no I wouldn't expect it to happen unless there's some kind of extreme circumstance lie this case. She joined at a time there was a lot going on with isis and knew fine well what she was doing.

She is every bit as British as you or I. Did you say Myra Hindley wasn’t ours? Or Fred and rose west? Or the bulger killers? They were arguably worse than this girl- but nobody stripped them of their citizenship. Or denied them their British identity.

Wonder what that’s about?

Come on, that's a ridiculous comparison. They may have committed terrible acts, back then and I don't see what happened in the '60s or '90s has any relevance to this very different case, but most countries will not strip their citizens of their Status because of murder. Terrorism or the people who are actively supporting it is a whole different kettle of fish and understandably considered more of a threat to the Nation than most murderers. Many countries specifically list it as a reason why you can lose your citizenship if you have dual nationality, though I know it's debatable if she does.

She was a groomed child and is a British citizen and I am 100% convinced that if she were white, she would have been home years ago - maybe put directly into a juvenile offender's institution or even prison if she were over 18 but home, nonetheless.

It doesn't matter whether you like her face or tone of voice or whether you think she's being honest about being sorry (which is complete bullshit, literally every study in this area has proved that people are completely unable to "tell" if someone is lying or not through their voice or body language, and if you think you can, you are delusional)- I will say again, she was a groomed child and a British citizen and she should be home. It is pure racism, hatred, and stupidity to say otherwise.

But they lied. She doesn’t have dual citizenship, you can and should only take someone’s citizenship if they are dual nationality. Not if the parents “might” be from another country so she might be able to get citizenship somewhere else.

Do we think it’s ok to make someone stateless - just someone else’s problem.

@IglesiasPiggle Hindley and the Wests were inconceivably worse than Begum. They were adults who actually murdered and tortured people, Begum was a groomed child who held awful opinions and has never murdered or tortured anyone.

I will say again, she was a groomed child and a British citizen and she should be home. It is pure racism, hatred, and stupidity to say otherwise.

What do you think of the white Jack Lett's being stripped of his citizenship for terrorism?

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/18/jack-letts-stripped-british-citizenship-isis-canada

Letts,

I think it's very unfair to judge someone as to how they come across on a news interview. Just because she doesn't seen remorseful in the way that we expect her to be doesn't mean that she definitely isn't.
She doesn't seem likeable, but that doesn't mean that we know her.
She deserves a chance to come home and face court here. Her comments about the Manchester Arena attacks were vile, but I believe that she was probably being defensive. We cannot know what's going on in her head.
We give pedophiles and rapists chance after chance in this country. She is a young woman who was groomed as a child and has been through more than many could imagine.

It is not possible to put square pegs into round holes. On the one hand there is her relative youth, naivety and the grooming.

On the other there is the need for justice, retribution and deterrent.

It may be uncomfortable for some, but there is a necessity that she is prevented from returning to the West ever again. If that means her life ended when she was 15 and now has a life of misery, then as uncomfortable as it may be for some, it is the way it has to be. The world is messy.

I don’t think you can compare this to Rotherham. In their propaganda Isis explicitly talk about re-instating slavery and were busy executing people and setting fire to them in cages, it was part of the recruiting, they weren’t hiding it. She was signing up to be part of an organisation that explicitly revelled in brutality and sexual slavery. She knew what they were. Rotherham girls didn’t sign up to ANYTHING.

I don’t think she fully got how low down on the pecking order women were. Girls were definitely lied to, it was apparently implied that they would have some sort of seat at the table. Having said that theres a reason 15 yr olds aren’t allowed to vote.

Ultimately she’s a british citizen and was a child when she went out there. She’s Britains responsibility as much asI’m loath to admit that.

@Effzeh, she also has Indian nationality on her mother's side, but she won't go there,as she'll be executed. That's why she wants to come here.