AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

[HurryUpAndWait23]

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

‘Right leaning ‘ papers are still bound by journalistic code which is why it was widely reported in other press around the world. Sources were said to be CIA and Dutch military intelligence interviews with other westerners who had also joined ISIS.
I rarely read The Telegraph. Strange that you jumped to that straight away. Wiki again?
On a more serious note we are all reliant on second hand information.Regulated news bodies are the best we have.
@Xenia I absolutely agree that more focus should be on Yazidis and the trauma they faced rather than the plight of those who rushed to join with their oppression. Germany have been especially proactive in this. I would like to see more reporting on the re settlement of these women and girls and the difficulties they are still facing. That would provide some balance.

@Cadent I'm sorry but I fail to see the useful comparison between Begum and Guifre.

One has seen the error of her ways and has been instrumental to bringing crimes of coercion, exploitation and rape to the attention of the authorities.

The other is sad that a murderous project has ended.

Both women could be expected as teenagers to understand that killing defenceless people is wrong and criminal, but that point is only relevant to the Begum case.

@ButterflyAway

If she’s living in a camp for detained terrorists, how did she get nail polish etc? Do we really reward terrorists with luxuries?

Apparently she watches GMTV on the camp and does Zumba classes.

[quote TheChiefJo]@Cadent I'm sorry but I fail to see the useful comparison between Begum and Guifre.

One has seen the error of her ways and has been instrumental to bringing crimes of coercion, exploitation and rape to the attention of the authorities.

The other is sad that a murderous project has ended.

Both women could be expected as teenagers to understand that killing defenceless people is wrong and criminal, but that point is only relevant to the Begum case.[/quote]
Quite. It’s been explained several times on here why the two woman and their circumstances aren’t comparable, but evidently the reasons get bypassed and the same question is asked again several more times…. Despite being given the same answer 🙄

What happened to the other two Bethnal Green girls?

@queenofarles

What happened to the other two Bethnal Green girls?

They’re dead.

Did SB plot terror attacks? I saw a pp here saying she would plot another Manchester bombing? She doesn't seem bright enough to be plotting anything.

I'm just wondering what her actual terrorist activities were - can anyone link me to a clear outline of what she's accused of? All I can find is stuff about her becoming an IS bride, and stuff about what she's said. Nothing about what she's actually done.

I find it hard to believe someone as stupid as SB could have responsibility for plotting terror.

See, I don’t think she’s remotely stupid. I think she’s a very bright young woman. No stupid 15 year old could meticulously plan her departure from the UK undetected. Apparently she was academically clever too. I think the damage she could do if she was repatriated is immense.

She comes over as immensely thick. But I don't know. Maybe she's tremendously clever and she's acting thick to fool people. If she's that smart though, why run off to be an isis bride? She surely could have worked out a better path for herself?

She doesn't seem bright in the interviews at all. If she was remotely sharp she'd know what to say to give herself the best chance of returning to the UK. To be honest, it reminds me of Prince Andrew's interview!

I never saw it said that she was academically clever, but still academic doesn't = common sense. I think she was gullible, vulnerable (hadn't she just lost her mother?) and not too questioning - easy pickings for recruiters.

Kenneth Clarke (when an MP) made the very valid point, in any case, that of people are dangerous it may be better to have them under your nose then rattling around Europe who knows where, planning who knows what.

She must have witnessed a lot of very horrific things and frankly things that I doubt anyone posting here would really know how to process. She does come across as distant and disengaged when being interviewed but what's the alternative. She must feel incredibly numb.

@Blossomtoes

See, I don’t think she’s remotely stupid. I think she’s a very bright young woman. No stupid 15 year old could meticulously plan her departure from the UK undetected. Apparently she was academically clever too. I think the damage she could do if she was repatriated is immense.

I don't think she planned anything, she did as the recruiters advised. And all you need is an apathetic family to go undetected.

If she was remotely sharp she'd know what to say to give herself the best chance of returning to the UK

She’s been embroiled in isis culture for years. Her normal is completely different and she’s completely lost touch with western values. She’s not in Europe, nor is she rattling around, she’s incarcerated in a camp in the Middle East where she can do no harm. Long may she stay there.

Number of British Jihadi brides is around 8, maybe more , apart from the other Bethnal Green girls , we haven’t heard anything about the rest ,
Do they still hold British citizenship?

Nothing is said about the others but I suspect they're either dead or not talking.

I usually try very hard not to be judgemental but the ill-informed self-righteousness of people here is irritating me, so I'm going to be. The recruiters were super cunning and they made Daesh sound like utopia, the only righteous path. Many of the recruits were vulnerable, disenchanted young people from underprivileged backgrounds. Many had anger at society's perception of their faith and the West's actions in their countries of origin. This anger was fed and stoked by the recruiters. There was a young man from Quintin Kynaston who had SEN; several had lost family members young and turned to "faith" for solace. They didn't have a clue what they were getting into. Do you really think that, once you arrived in Raqqa, you could say "Actually, this isn't what I expected, I don't fancy it - I think I'll go back"?

Since the age of criminal responsibility is 10, the Telegraph claims she helped suicide bombers and Javid has a bunch of evidence, the accusations against her could be tried in court. That's how our idea of justice works.

@Jourdain11

Nothing is said about the others but I suspect they're either dead or not talking.

I usually try very hard not to be judgemental but the ill-informed self-righteousness of people here is irritating me, so I'm going to be. The recruiters were super cunning and they made Daesh sound like utopia, the only righteous path. Many of the recruits were vulnerable, disenchanted young people from underprivileged backgrounds. Many had anger at society's perception of their faith and the West's actions in their countries of origin. This anger was fed and stoked by the recruiters. There was a young man from Quintin Kynaston who had SEN; several had lost family members young and turned to "faith" for solace. They didn't have a clue what they were getting into. Do you really think that, once you arrived in Raqqa, you could say "Actually, this isn't what I expected, I don't fancy it - I think I'll go back"?

Even if I was convinced by this - how on earth do you know? - it doesn’t make Begum any less dangerous. I hardly think it’s self righteous not to want someone “unfazed” by a disembodied head in a bin and who justified the Manchester bombing in my country. Her hatred of the west won’t suddenly disappear to be replaced with gratitude if she returns here.

I've finally managed to watch the interview.

This person is not happy that women and children were killed and hurt in Manchester.. presumably this means that she'd have been quite content if my DP, DSS, DB, BIL and when hes older DS were blown into smithereens.

She can f* cking well stay where she is on that basis alone. I do not believe she did not know ISIS was a death cult.. it was not exactly a secret whatever she was being told online.. how could she at least have not had a niggling doubt about it??

IF she must return i hope she's convicted of terrorism and treason and locked up for good because she's clearly happy to plot the death of men in this country

Do you really think that, once you arrived in Raqqa, you could say "Actually, this isn't what I expected, I don't fancy it - I think I'll go back"?

Of course you can't do that, but Shamima very clearly still believed IS ideology and I'd argue, still does. She may have wanted to leave, but most likely because of her living conditions and fears for her own future, not some kind of moral epiphany.

I doubt she fucked off to Syria without so much as a Google search. It really doesn't look like paradise by anybody's standards

I don't doubt promises and misleading things were said to entice young people, but they really aren't victims. People leaving Europe to go to the Middle East- they have access to internet. To some extent, they knew what it was like, and the killing/redemption etc. was undoubtedly part of the selling point.

I'm not saying she's not culpable or whatever, but haven't people heard of grooming? I can't even be bothered with this any more, it just saddens me that people are so vitriolic and inflexible in the way they see this.

I doubt she fucked off to Syria without so much as a Google search

She didn’t. She refers to her “research” in the latest interview.

@Jourdain11

I'm not saying she's not culpable or whatever, but haven't people heard of grooming? I can't even be bothered with this any more, it just saddens me that people are so vitriolic and inflexible in the way they see this.

Every murderer, rapist, paedophile has been abused or groomed. Who cares, are we supposed to just open our hearts and jail cells as a result?

What is she supposed to have actually done, though? Can anyone tell me?

She helped suicide bombers - okay? That could mean she gave them a cup of tea before they went off, or maybe it means she manipulated/coerced them into going through with it. Or something in between. Or it was her idea? There's also the question of whether she would have been able to refuse. If it was her 'role' as a wife, to help sew the suits or make the tea, how much ability would she have had to say no? Or is there evidence that she was not just going along with it, but actually pushing for it and instigating it? I feel like it makes a big difference.

I'm not making an argument here, I am genuinely asking. For all the endless discussion about things she's said and things others have said about her, I don't think I've ever heard what it is she's done, apart from obviously the original escape to isis and the propaganda she was part of. I'm a bit ignorant on this, I admit - can anyone fill in the blanks for me? I haven't found anything online that helps.

Joining a terrorist organisation?

@beastlyslumber to be fair I just googled the same thing, what has shamima done?

I think it's fair to say she has done things that as the public we would never be privy to.

Saiid Javed was who made the decision to strip her citizenship and being interviewed on GMB he said he cannot give details but if the public knew what she had done they too would have made the same decision.

This leads me to think there are things we don't know and I also think likely if we did know we might agree she should never return.