Ds expected to “help” another pupil with work in class

[LostFrog]

Ds is 9 years old, just started Year 5, first year of new school (middle school system here).

He tells me that when he has finished his own work in class, he is required to help a boy who sits next to him. This happens every single lesson, and he says that the boy is reluctant to work, won’t write anything, gives up quickly and mutters all the time that he doesn’t get it, etc. From asking around, this seems to be the standard on every table in the class - there is one or two pupils who are “learning mentors” who have to teach the less able ones.

Is this a) normal, and b) reasonable? It’s not like ds volunteered for this role. If he has finished, Shouldn’t he be offered an extension task whilst the teacher or TA (there is one, I checked) help the ones who are struggling? I have emailed the teacher to ask them to clarify what’s expected, but has anyone else come across this?

No worries, I don’t take offence on the internet, and I didn’t intend to trigger you further.

For me it highlights one of the problems with the practice that it labels individual students among their peers, which I don’t think is fair.

Thank you for being gracious

@Smartiepants79

Having to teach something to another person can actually be very helpful in improving your own understanding and clarifying your thought processes. Having to explain your thinking is a learning tool used in lots of areas. The only reason I’d have a serious problem with this is if it’s preventing my child from completing his own work or the other child is being horrible.

Exactly right. Peer-to-peer mentoring helps develop any learner's skills in a multitude of ways. It also empowers them to be better independent learners and problem solvers. If the other child is reluctant to engage every time, then I would ask the teacher to rotate the group every day, so that a different child is mentored by different peers each time. Also, if extension work can be added, your child could be mentored or paired up with another of similar ability to achieve it together.

The principle is apparently that students feel more comfortable sharing difficulties with other students, but I’m not sure that’s true. Maybe some do, but I think many kids would feel more comfortable airing their difficulties with a safe adult, for fear of teasing, ridicule, exposing their weaknesses etc.

@Pumperthepumper
Yes she does understand the importance of it.
But that is not my point.
She is being made to do basic sums that bore her stiff and having done them, she has to explain them to other children who don't want to learn. She is a little kid. She is not the teacher, nor does she wish to be. She is in school to learn. But the school is failing her and others like her. She should be spending her time learning something extra.

@LimitIsUp

Please know that those of us who got the “bright” label as children and those who have it applied to our own children fully understand that it only means a person is skilled in one very narrow way.

We still have to advocate for our kids because school can actually be really hard for kids like that. When we go in for testing they get labels like “asynchronous development” and “resulting in severe anxiety.”

The ability that just awes me is composing. For all we know, this hypothetical kid struggling with the math lesson could end up writing amazing music some day. It’s a skill I simply don’t possess and when I encounter someone who does, I feel dwarfed by the capacity of their brain.

[quote thenovice]@Pumperthepumper
Yes she does understand the importance of it.
But that is not my point.
She is being made to do basic sums that bore her stiff and having done them, she has to explain them to other children who don't want to learn. She is a little kid. She is not the teacher, nor does she wish to be. She is in school to learn. But the school is failing her and others like her. She should be spending her time learning something extra.[/quote]
I think you’re misunderstanding the point of peer support, like many, many others on this thread

It’s not so your daughter can teach the other kids. It’s for her benefit: so she can reframe and reorganise concepts that she already knows. It’s a fantastic skill to learn, and it also builds into lots of other transferable skills like vocabulary, communication and so on. It’s her own learning she’s doing, not someone else’s.

What ‘something extra’ would you rather she did?

[quote Driftingblue]@LimitIsUp

Please know that those of us who got the “bright” label as children and those who have it applied to our own children fully understand that it only means a person is skilled in one very narrow way.

We still have to advocate for our kids because school can actually be really hard for kids like that. When we go in for testing they get labels like “asynchronous development” and “resulting in severe anxiety.”

The ability that just awes me is composing. For all we know, this hypothetical kid struggling with the math lesson could end up writing amazing music some day. It’s a skill I simply don’t possess and when I encounter someone who does, I feel dwarfed by the capacity of their brain.[/quote]
I think also though, everyone thinks their kid is the top dog. So people hear ‘team teaching’ and think it means ‘their teacher has decided my ten year old is so capable at maths they’ve drafted them in to actually teach the other children while the professional teacher sits with their feet on the desk drinking tea’ and nobody stops to think how unlikely that is.

[quote Driftingblue]@LimitIsUp

Please know that those of us who got the “bright” label as children and those who have it applied to our own children fully understand that it only means a person is skilled in one very narrow way.

We still have to advocate for our kids because school can actually be really hard for kids like that. When we go in for testing they get labels like “asynchronous development” and “resulting in severe anxiety.”

The ability that just awes me is composing. For all we know, this hypothetical kid struggling with the math lesson could end up writing amazing music some day. It’s a skill I simply don’t possess and when I encounter someone who does, I feel dwarfed by the capacity of their brain.[/quote]
This is very true and I would say my DD didn't really benefit academically by helping another girl but she did benefit by become great friends with this girl who had other skills my DD didn't have at that time and that became the most significant friendship she had at primary school. Unfortunately the other girl moved away with her family at 11 so the friendship gradually reduced although 20 years on they still keep up to date with each other online.

@Pumperthepumper
I totally understand peer support. What I do not understand is that my daughter should spend her time teaching kids who do not want to learn.
What something extra would I like her to learn?
I would like her to learn things she does not already know. That is one of the main things school is for.
Would you suggest it was a good idea for a child who could read and understand Harry Potter books to spend her day going through "Biff Chip and Kipper Level 4" and then teaching it to others, without EVER getting a chance to read things like that in school? That is her situation in both maths and literacy.

[quote thenovice]@Pumperthepumper
I totally understand peer support. What I do not understand is that my daughter should spend her time teaching kids who do not want to learn.
What something extra would I like her to learn?
I would like her to learn things she does not already know. That is one of the main things school is for.
Would you suggest it was a good idea for a child who could read and understand Harry Potter books to spend her day going through "Biff Chip and Kipper Level 4" and then teaching it to others, without EVER getting a chance to read things like that in school? That is her situation in both maths and literacy.[/quote]
With respect, you don’t understand it if you still think your daughter is spending her time teaching kids who do not want to learn - that’s not the purpose of peer support.

There’s a real danger in pushing kids along when they’re not ready. So education these days doesn’t focus on ‘learning things they don’t know’, it looks at building (widening, if you like) knowledge. That doesn’t mean giving them a trickier book to read or a worksheet of quantum physics to work their way through. It means looking at their existing knowledge and using it to build more skills.

So a skilled reader could easily get a lot of out reading a basic book - they could examine sentence structure, for example, or look at sounds or spelling. They could read it aloud and use different tones and inflections, they could examine illustrations. It’s not the case that the school don’t want kids to progress, it’s that they want them to progress properly.

Thank you Driftingblue.

Yes I do acknowledge that you need to advocate for children who are academically very able in some subjects, and can appreciate that school can be frustrating if they are not challenged appropriately

With respect, you don’t understand it if you still think your daughter is spending her time teaching kids who do not want to learn - that’s not the purpose of peer support.

With respect, she probably does understand that, as do many others on this thread. We know what the purpose of peer support is, it's just that so often it isn't used for its true purpose. What should happen and what does happen, are two entirely different things.

@opentherm

With respect, you don’t understand it if you still think your daughter is spending her time teaching kids who do not want to learn - that’s not the purpose of peer support.

With respect, she probably does understand that, as do many others on this thread. We know what the purpose of peer support is, it's just that so often it isn't used for its true purpose. What should happen and what does happen, are two entirely different things.

I’m not sure that’s true though - people still think their kid is being used as a teacher. Even if it not being done properly, that’s not it. Teachers don’t think 10 year olds are capable of teaching.

Yes people still think their kid is being used as a teacher, the posters who did it themselves think they were used as teachers and the kids who are doing it feel like they’re being used as teachers. Do you a pattern?

Everyone does not think their child is "the top dog."

@AGreenerShadeofKale

Everyone does not think their child is "the top dog."

Ah they do though. Every parent thinks their kid is the most important one in the class, of course they do.

They do not.

@opentherm

They do not.

They do.

Mind reader.

I do not agree with you. Of course, that is my opinion, and my opinion is just that, an opinion. You seem to think that your opinion should be accepted by everyone as an undeniable fact.

@opentherm

I do not agree with you. Of course, that is my opinion, and my opinion is just that, an opinion. You seem to think that your opinion should be accepted by everyone as an undeniable fact.

Ok, thanks for your feedback.

@Pumperthepumper
You say, "Education these days doesn’t focus on ‘learning things they don’t know’....."
Well that'll be why the standards are so appalling then.

[quote thenovice]@Pumperthepumper
You say, "Education these days doesn’t focus on ‘learning things they don’t know’....."
Well that'll be why the standards are so appalling then.[/quote]
Which ones specifically?

Gosh hi everyone, wasn’t expecting so many replies but thanks for all the different perspectives. The update is that I have spoken to the teacher to ask for clarity on what was expected and he took on board my concerns, he said that ds mustn’t feel responsible for others’ learning and that he would reiterate this to all his ‘learning mentors’ on Monday. He said that he wanted to help them feel confident by giving them some responsibility but on reflection realised that perhaps it was too much pressure especially at an early stage. He also called the whole practice ‘contentious’ which made me wonder whether he was a secret Mumsnetter and had been on here

Anyway, hopefully a good outcome for ds.
Thank you everyone, hearing different opinions probably stopped me going off guns blazing but also gave me some great arguments to make. I almost sounded like I knew what I was talking about