Ds expected to “help” another pupil with work in class

[LostFrog]

Ds is 9 years old, just started Year 5, first year of new school (middle school system here).

He tells me that when he has finished his own work in class, he is required to help a boy who sits next to him. This happens every single lesson, and he says that the boy is reluctant to work, won’t write anything, gives up quickly and mutters all the time that he doesn’t get it, etc. From asking around, this seems to be the standard on every table in the class - there is one or two pupils who are “learning mentors” who have to teach the less able ones.

Is this a) normal, and b) reasonable? It’s not like ds volunteered for this role. If he has finished, Shouldn’t he be offered an extension task whilst the teacher or TA (there is one, I checked) help the ones who are struggling? I have emailed the teacher to ask them to clarify what’s expected, but has anyone else come across this?

I was used as an unpaid teaching assistant at school - I hated it. I didn't mind helping my friends, but the constant shouts of "MrsColon! MrsColon!" throughout class got really annoying.

I don't enjoy teaching, never have - that's why I didn't become a teacher!

Similar here MrsColon, teaching is not for everyone.

Collaborative learning.

Helping explain things to others will reinforce your sons learning. It will also help with his people skills. I actially think this is a lovely idea.

If both children are comfortable and receptive , that kind of peer support can be a positive learning aid for both.

However, that's obviously not the case here, and neither child should be put in such an unwelcome and negative scenario. I'd speak to the teacher ASAP.

"Your son is also learning how to deal with frustration, and difficult people. These can be valuable skills."

Well how marvellous for him, but if he's finding it annoying and worrisome (because he feels responsible for managing the behaviour of a reluctant peer) the obvious solution he'll come to is not finishing his own work, so he doesn't have to help. So the OP's son could end up not even completing his own tasks and falling behind, rather than deciding to continue working fast and well and being "punished" with having to help this boy.

If every time I finished a work project I was told to manage a poorly performing person on my own level who won't listen to me, I'd string it out too.

If they're adamant on this policy you could at least demand they swap who he sits with.

@Tiredforfive45

Helping others can be an extension task. It requires skills in showing and expressing your understanding and communicating that understanding to others.

Having said that, it should be one of a range of extension tasks and not happening every lesson.

100% this!

Good for your son on occasion. Not all the time!

I can see it being frustrating for your child. I know DS5 has a subject that he flies through and is partnered with a child of lesser ability and he doesn't like it as he gets told to stop doing it and explain to his friend. But I've noticed he is explaining his work much better now as a result, obviously it depends on whether the other child wants to be helped and not have the work done for them. I would mention to teacher if you feel that it is affecting your son as you don't want him to feel he has to if he doesn't want to.

Peer to peer teaching is meant to be very effective, can't say I'm a big fan of it though

yes only good when used very rarely. A really bright child who definitely understands isn't necessarily going to consolidate anything more by trying to persuade a reluctant pupil to do something. And might end up just telling him how to do it, which isn't what the other pupils needs either - they too need proper teaching and explaining of something that they don't understand.

I was always doing this as a child, and it changed my relationships with peers. I wasn't seen as an equal, somehow, but as an 'older sister' or something, a person that you went to for help or to ask questions, and that changed the types of social interactions I had. I was also one of the oldest, and significantly ahead and so interested often in different things anyway, not to mention very shy, and none of that did anything but reinforce my isolation.

On the other hand, teaching younger children or listening to reception children read, etc, was quite fun. I still ended up being treated as someone much older than my age, but it didn't matter so much in that context.

I was never really extended much in my own work, which was a shame. I ended up focusing on doing my work perfectly or getting perfect scores in it all, which led to very unhelpful and unhealthy perfectionist streaks. If I'd been challenged with harder work instead on occasion, it might have prevented some of that.

It's normal. The child teaching a) learns skills by teaching and b) reinforces their knowledge.

There is a difference between ds helping explain something to another child and being made to feel responsible for that's child's learning. At the bare minimum the teacher needs to explain to ds that it's not his job/responsibility to make the child do his work. It also shouldn't happen all the time, certainly not every lesson.

Id email. People always try and justify this crap by saying it teaches them this that ajd the other. The assumption being that just because they understand it or finish the work or are we'll behaved and helpful that they have no other needs that mean this might actually be stressful and a source if worry for them. Wheres the incentive to really work hard and do your best when all it gets you in return is not extra investment to improve your education but merely the worry of the responsibility of teaching a child, that adults with University degrees who's entire job is to do just that haven't managed to do but somehow a 9 yr old can

If the other boy was willing to accept the help and attempt the work then maybe it might be OK but he isn't. Which sounds incredibly frustrating for your ds . It should be the school staffs job to encourage and assist reluctant learners, not the other children.

Having to manage the other kids behaviour is not on.

However, helping kids who are not as quick to learn as him is beneficial because it will consolidate his own learning, it will move the whole class along quicker which benefits him, and because as people who choose to live in a society together we should be willing to share our knowledge with other people for the good of the group. Not everything is a 'how does this help me individually?' question.

However, helping kids who are not as quick to learn as him is beneficial because it will consolidate his own learning, it will move the whole class along quicker which benefits him, and because as people who choose to live in a society together we should be willing to share our knowledge with other people for the good of the group. Not everything is a 'how does this help me individually?' question

Teach to the middle then? So when do the brighter kids get to extend their knowledge?

I think it’s fine if the friend or other child just struggles and it’s not the same child helping and expected to help. That can be quite full on especially at 9. I have the child (10) who doesn’t engage etc and struggles with school however it is managed by school/teachers/sla etc not by other pupils. However they have all been very kind with my son which is lovely.

My older son is 11 so year above (p7) is very good at spelling and reading and his friend really struggles, my son isn’t great at maths and the same friend is very good so they help each other or other kids but it’s nothing forced and it’s a nice arrangement and he’s really helped my son and my son gets something out of helping his friends as he enjoys it. But in op sons position no, I wouldn’t want my child doing that in that situation, it should be a mutual arrangement where they work together or help each other but it shouldn’t be expected, it singles that other child out too, def speak to schopl op

I volunteer in a primary school and even with a teacher and a TA (or me) there are still children who don't get everything they need within a lesson. Sadly I feel this will now be worse because of the number of children who weren't able or didn't engage with at home learning during lockdown. Differentiation work is available and yes more able students should be given this work. This does sadly leave the less able children at a disadvantage.

All tables are mixed ability to allow for peer teaching, logistically it is hard to corral 4 or 5 pupils together for teaching, there isn't the room in the classroom and depending on the number of pupils needing this sort of intervention we are vying for space outside the classroom too. I often end up kneeling down between the chairs as the desks are for 6 children and have 6 children on them.

I can see this from both sides. I think the parent of the lower ability child would be upset that their child is being left to flounder. It is hard to try to get round all the children who need you. I tend to work with the lower ability as it is easier for me to keep them focused on the task at hand and help rather than expand and push the higher ability children.

However, the OP is right, this should be an occasional thing not an every day task for her son. If the child is not engaging with any work then clearly they need an adult, not a child, to help.

@Whatwouldscullydo

However, helping kids who are not as quick to learn as him is beneficial because it will consolidate his own learning, it will move the whole class along quicker which benefits him, and because as people who choose to live in a society together we should be willing to share our knowledge with other people for the good of the group. Not everything is a 'how does this help me individually?' question

Teach to the middle then? So when do the brighter kids get to extend their knowledge?

Getting kids to do this doesn't preclude giving them extension stuff as well does it?

Peer learning is a tried and tested way of consolidating the learning of both children. It deepens the learning of the child doing the teaching, putting it in their long term memory. Lots of research done on it. His teacher is trained in pedagogy to at least a post-graduate level so it's quite safe to assume the same can be said of all strategies they use in the classroom. In the nicest possible way, I would focus on your job and let them focus on theirs.

i think usually this is quite a good set up as its the best way to establish the knowledge for your child to be able to explain it to another child. However if that child is unwilling and resistant then thats unfair

This happened with my niece. She’s extremely bright and works fast. My brother found out that she was regularly being asked to miss play time to stay inside to ‘coach’ another pupil. She was 11-years-old. The teacher had dressed it up as some sort of honour so hadn’t really objected at first. She eventually mentioned it in passing at home as she hated missing her play time.

For want of a better phrase, shit ricocheted off the fan every which way when my brother and my SIL found out.

Whoever referred to them as ‘unpaid TAs’ is right. Awful.

@PaperDolphin

Peer learning is a tried and tested way of consolidating the learning of both children. It deepens the learning of the child doing the teaching, putting it in their long term memory. Lots of research done on it. His teacher is trained in pedagogy to at least a post-graduate level so it's quite safe to assume the same can be said of all strategies they use in the classroom. In the nicest possible way, I would focus on your job and let them focus on theirs.

I do agree with this tbh.

I was used as an unpaid teaching assistant at school - I hated it. I didn't mind helping my friends, but the constant shouts of "MrsColon! MrsColon!" throughout class got really annoying.

I don't enjoy teaching, never have - that's why I didn't become a teacher!

I was used as teacher's assistant in that way (in a 'family grouping' i.e. mixed year group class in the 1970s). I did like it though, and wonder if it's partly why I became a teacher!

Peer learning is a tried and tested way of consolidating the learning of both children. It deepens the learning of the child doing the teaching, putting it in their long term memory. Lots of research done on it. His teacher is trained in pedagogy to at least a post-graduate level so it's quite safe to assume the same can be said of all strategies they use in the classroom. In the nicest possible way, I would focus on your job and let them focus on theirs.

I wouldn't assume that all of teachers' classroom strategies are based on post-graduate pedagogical theories tbh. It's more likely to be down to the frazzled teacher not being able to get round and help everyone who needs helping. Besides, the theory of peer learning is all very well, making a child in their very first term of a new school responsible for getting an unwilling classmate to do their work doesn't sound like it's going to consolidate much for anyone.

@Whatwouldscullydo

However, helping kids who are not as quick to learn as him is beneficial because it will consolidate his own learning, it will move the whole class along quicker which benefits him, and because as people who choose to live in a society together we should be willing to share our knowledge with other people for the good of the group. Not everything is a 'how does this help me individually?' question

Teach to the middle then? So when do the brighter kids get to extend their knowledge?

This question always bores me. If the child really is that bright they will self-extend.