Male midwives - aibu

[Ikeasucks]

My 27 yr old niece is pregnant and we were discussing the coming birth - she said she would like to put female only midwife on her birthing plan but is worried how the staff, her friends etc will react as one “friend” told her she was being sexist and bigoted for taking that view. Aibu in thinking it’s perfectly fine and understandable for women to want another woman at such a time - it it’s possible

Well yeah, let's actually hope so because that would be horrible for her.

Why do posts like this always sound so full of glee at the thought of someone having to deal with something that could be incredibly traumatic to them?

Well said @StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind and good question!

I had a male midwife 31 years ago at the birth of my 2nd child, I had no.issues at all with him looking after me - as the person is qualified that is all that matters. If intervention was required by a Gynae or other medical, is it reasonable to request a certain sex medic? Given the NHS is under such strain I think yes, anyone doing so is being unreasonable. Take what you are offered and thankful.

I’m a health care professional as is DH. Male midwives make me quite angry - can’t they just leave women with one thing that’s just for us? Like all other areas of health care, male midwives will be more easily promoted, earn more and be in charge of female midwives. And given that 1 in 4 (at least) women have experienced some form of sexual abuse, it is completely right that they should not be subjected to males carrying out routine intimate procedures. The male apologists are out in force of course on this thread ….. it doesn’t bother me blah blah blah. The issue is that it really does bother and traumatise some women and it is their right to protect their bodies from male intrusion.

@Cakeofdoom

I had a male midwife 31 years ago at the birth of my 2nd child, I had no.issues at all with him looking after me - as the person is qualified that is all that matters. If intervention was required by a Gynae or other medical, is it reasonable to request a certain sex medic? Given the NHS is under such strain I think yes, anyone doing so is being unreasonable. Take what you are offered and thankful.

"as the person is qualified that is all that matters."

No it really isn't all that matters.

"If intervention was required by a Gynae or other medical, is it reasonable to request a certain sex medic?"

Again, as many people in this thread have explained (not that it really needs explanation), the midwife plays a completely unique role and really isn't comparable to other HCPs or to an emergency situation.

Thankfully we do have the right to request same sex care and thankfully your personal experiences are irrelevant and have zero bearing on the care other women receive.

@Stuckhere2021

I’m a health care professional as is DH. Male midwives make me quite angry - can’t they just leave women with one thing that’s just for us? Like all other areas of health care, male midwives will be more easily promoted, earn more and be in charge of female midwives. And given that 1 in 4 (at least) women have experienced some form of sexual abuse, it is completely right that they should not be subjected to males carrying out routine intimate procedures. The male apologists are out in force of course on this thread ….. it doesn’t bother me blah blah blah. The issue is that it really does bother and traumatise some women and it is their right to protect their bodies from male intrusion.

Thank you for this post, it's spot on and is such a relief to hear this from an actual HCP after a mostly awful thread!

@Cakeofdoom

I had a male midwife 31 years ago at the birth of my 2nd child, I had no.issues at all with him looking after me - as the person is qualified that is all that matters. If intervention was required by a Gynae or other medical, is it reasonable to request a certain sex medic? Given the NHS is under such strain I think yes, anyone doing so is being unreasonable. Take what you are offered and thankful.

Just because healthcare is free at the point of delivery (no pun intended) doesn’t mean we should be grateful. There’s no need for gratitude. I won’t accept intimate healthcare from a man. There are plenty of women available.

@Stuckhere2021

I’m a health care professional as is DH. Male midwives make me quite angry - can’t they just leave women with one thing that’s just for us? Like all other areas of health care, male midwives will be more easily promoted, earn more and be in charge of female midwives. And given that 1 in 4 (at least) women have experienced some form of sexual abuse, it is completely right that they should not be subjected to males carrying out routine intimate procedures. The male apologists are out in force of course on this thread ….. it doesn’t bother me blah blah blah. The issue is that it really does bother and traumatise some women and it is their right to protect their bodies from male intrusion.

Excellent post, I agree 100%

@Ravvna why shouldn't someone discuss their upcoming childbirth with a close friend?

I think many women would accept that if it came down to life and death for them or their child they would accept that they may need intimate care to be administered by a man. It doesn't mean they can't have preferences.

As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse I am well able to distinguish between a dedicated male healthcare worker and a predator. My most traumatizing experience was with a female midwife, she physically injured me during examination and then administered a painkiller I am highly allergic to resulting in an emergency situation. Competence is higher on my agenda than male or female

Yes, statistics show that males are more often sexual predators and abusers than females. But there is also a huge grey area as not a lot of males will confess to being abused.

And most of those men will have been abused by men.

It is not sexist or unreasonable to say you want to be treated by a woman HCP.

Nothing wrong with a man wanting to be a midwife, and I'm sure the vast majority do a good job and understand why some women would prefer a woman - I did read one interview with a male midwife where he seemed to resent it and that he was being discriminated against, but he was clearly in the wrong job if he felt like that.

I wouldn't have wanted a male midwife for reasons to do with trauma. I didn't put that in my birth plan, it didn't occur to me as a possibility tbh. Unfortunately, given the circumstances of my son's birth and my history of trauma, I was very scared and anxious and doubt I'd have been able to articulate that if there had been a male midwife present and I'd probably have ended up with worse birth trauma than I did anyway.

On this thread, which I have read most of, there seem to be several posters offering reassuring stories that there are decent male MWs out there.

HOWEVER it is absolutely your niece's right and prerogative to ask for female only staff, and for that to be adhered to under the Equalities Act 2010, and I support her in that right and would expect that she GOT all female staff, if she so wishes.

Stuckhere2021

"I’m a health care professional as is DH. Male midwives make me quite angry - can’t they just leave women with one thing that’s just for us?"

Utterly ridiculous post. What, d'you think a man dedicates years of his life qualifying to become a midwife just to say "nice one, now I can get to see a bit of fanny!"

Regarding the poster who said her father couldn't opt for male carers - of course he could ASK, he has every right to, as does every male patient have the right to request a male physician or nurse - but in terms of carers, at least, the VAST majority of them are female, so they may not have been able to comply with his request, simply because they didn't have any male carers.

Utterly ridiculous post. What, d'you think a man dedicates years of his life qualifying to become a midwife just to say "nice one, now I can get to see a bit of fanny!"

Incredibly poor understanding of the topic if that was your take from it.

The point was that throughout history, midwifery was always the domain of women. As with everything else, men actively prevented women from becoming doctors- this only changed in the very recent past. Midwifery was the one area of healthcare that was for women- the point was that men have benefitted from all their privilege throughout history, and still do, yet some still can't leave this one thing for women.

Most posters are not claiming that men become midwives to 'see a bit of fanny'. I do however think it is typical male privilege, when they are aware that their very presence will cause discomfort and possibly real trauma to a large number of the women in their care. I can't imagine wanting to do a job if my presence would make people feel like this. It's typical male privilege to carry on regardless in my opinion.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Utterly ridiculous post. What, d'you think a man dedicates years of his life qualifying to become a midwife just to say "nice one, now I can get to see a bit of fanny!"

Incredibly poor understanding of the topic if that was your take from it.

The point was that throughout history, midwifery was always the domain of women. As with everything else, men actively prevented women from becoming doctors- this only changed in the very recent past. Midwifery was the one area of healthcare that was for women- the point was that men have benefitted from all their privilege throughout history, and still do, yet some still can't leave this one thing for women.

Most posters are not claiming that men become midwives to 'see a bit of fanny'. I do however think it is typical male privilege, when they are aware that their very presence will cause discomfort and possibly real trauma to a large number of the women in their care. I can't imagine wanting to do a job if my presence would make people feel like this. It's typical male privilege to carry on regardless in my opinion.

Have to say I think you’re wrong. I’ve worked alongside two male midwives in the past. One of them I don’t know why he wanted to be a midwife (didn’t know him that well) but the other was extremely passionate about midwifery. I’d say 99% of the women loved him. But he’d always be the first to say to women if you don’t want me, that’s fine, we can find someone else.

Over the many years I worked with him lots of women have spoken to me about him. Many admitted to being surprised about a male midwife and I’d often hear something along the lines of “if you’d asked me beforehand I’d have said I didn’t want a man but the minute I met him I knew he’d be great”. He genuinely had a way with women that I wish I could emulate.

Women would come back for their 2nd baby and ask for him. He retired recently and the posts on the local town’s Facebook group ran into hundreds and hundreds from women telling stories about how good he was.

So no, in my experience it’s not about male privilege. Midwifery is a hard career, I can’t imagine doing it if you’re not genuinely passionate about it.

So no, in my experience it’s not about male privilege

Either you didn’t understand Stuckhere’s post or you don’t understand the meaning of male privilege.

All of these anecdotes are great, but I don't think many if any have doubted male midwives abilities, but have reasonably stated that they would be more comfortable with a woman for various reasons.

There were a few complications with my DD's birth and I had to get her out quickly. A team of people suddenly appeared in my room. I was drugged up to the eyes and can honestly say, I have no idea who was in that room and what gender they were. My midwives (it was a long labour, I got through a few!) up to that point had all been female though and all very different personalities and approaches.

@Blossomtoes

So no, in my experience it’s not about male privilege

Either you didn’t understand Stuckhere’s post or you don’t understand the meaning of male privilege.

I'm pretty sure I understand both. I disagree with her last paragraph on male midwives causing discomfort to women but carrying on regardless. I don't think for the majority of male midwives that's the case. Ime they're very sensitive to such issues and will swap with another midwife.

@Booknooks

All of these anecdotes are great, but I don't think many if any have doubted male midwives abilities, but have reasonably stated that they would be more comfortable with a woman for various reasons.

Exactly. There are numerous reasons why women would prefer to have a female-only staff around her, and she should be accommodated as far as is practically possible.

You're right - the anecdotes don't matter when women have strong feelings about not having males attending them - but if the niece in question was only thinking that it would be "weird" to have a male MW, then maybe seeing some of the anecdotes would help her to see that (outwith other reasons) many male MWs can be just as good/bad/indifferent as female MWs.

These threads go round and round. Yes there are good male midwives out there. Yes there are poor female midwives out there. Yes we all have our stories to tell. However, coming back to the OP, yes your niece can make that decision. In practice, that might not happen but she can ask. It’s not sexist, it’s not going to upset the men out there and if it does so what. My boyfriend would feel uncomfortable watching a male stripper. He chooses not too. Let women make these choices and stop making women feel uncomfortable making these choices.

@RosesAndHellebores

What I have difficulty with here, is the fact that whilst a man was given full access to put the baby in there, a suitably qualified, professional man can't be given access to help said baby out.

I find it far more peculiar to have a woman rooting around down there than a man to be perfectly honest.

Are you kidding?

@CovidCorvid you aren't understanding my point. Never mind how good or passionate they may be- that is entirely my point- their 'passion' is more important to them than the feelings of the women they are treating. Yes, they may be understanding if a woman requests a female midwife instead but there are women who will really struggle to even ask, and they have then put her in that position.

The fact they don't even consider this to me epitomises male privilege to me.

I do understand your point but I disagree with it. I've never met a male midwife who puts his passion above the woman's feelings.