Male midwives - aibu

[Ikeasucks]

My 27 yr old niece is pregnant and we were discussing the coming birth - she said she would like to put female only midwife on her birthing plan but is worried how the staff, her friends etc will react as one “friend” told her she was being sexist and bigoted for taking that view. Aibu in thinking it’s perfectly fine and understandable for women to want another woman at such a time - it it’s possible

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Male HCPs don't get offended if you say you don't want to see them, Anyone working in healthcare understands that the comfort of their patient is important.

You can say that for all of them, can you?

Can you speak for any of them at all? Are you one?

Can you speak for any of them at all? Are you one?

Lol 😂 no, but it wasn't me who was trying to

Floundering was accurate.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

*Just to raise a point here, it is important to remember that just because a woman has been through breastfeeding doesn't mean she is necessarily the best person to help you. She may have found it easier than you or harder than you, she may not understand why you're having difficulties with it etc. My lactation consultant hadn't had my experience of excessive milk production and just kept telling me what she did which didn't help.*

No I agree with that too, I just also think that most people who have done it, even if it's gone relatively smoothly, understand the difficulties, the emotions, all of those things. I couldn't have imagined it myself until I'd done it, not properly. Again, it's a general thing, but thinking about breastfeeding supporters etc, it's the empathy and understanding of how it can be that draws people to it. I've had varied experiences of breastfeeding- very difficult second time with a tongue tied baby- I think most people who have done it are aware it's not plain sailing for a lot of people.

Yeah I agree. It's hard in one way or another for every woman to do, emotionally, physically, psychologically, and much easier to be empathetic when you have had first hand experience

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Can you speak for any of them at all? Are you one?

Lol 😂 no, but it wasn't me who was trying to

Floundering was accurate.

Well, if I am floundering, I hope I drown tbh. I said that women should be able to insist on a female HCP involved in her care... and yet MN seems fit to try and rip me to shreds. What do you actually want me to say?

Then why are you arguing with those of us who are asking for female HCPs?

Before i had my first the thought of a man in the room (except dh) filled me with horror. As it was there were complications so I ended up with 2 men administering the spinal block, several other men in the theatre and a male obstetrician delivering ds1 with rotational forceps as he was the most senior on duty.
I was just grateful and felt completely different about it in the moment and afterwards than I did afterwards. All of the men involved in my care made me feel safe during what was a very stressful and painful time.
I will also say that the man who delivered ds1 showed more compassion and care than the woman who delivered ds2 but I put that down to personality rather than sex obviously.

That said I think she has the right to request females only. She doesn't have to discuss it with her friends.

Make clear that you want a biologically female midwife. With the current gender woo, you could theoretically get a trans identified male midwife who identifies as a woman and suddenly you're a bigot and transphobe if you complain.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patient-branded-transphobic-after-asking-for-female-medic-3jh3snddt

Good luck OP. The term woman no longer means woman.

@Twizbe

Then why are you arguing with those of us who are asking for female HCPs?

I have not once argued against anyone insisting on a female HCP.

@Twizbe* I understand. But sometimes, your surgeon (if you insisted on female) might get into difficulty and ask for assistance (that does happen a lot), and the surgeon they call on might be male.

Welcome to the most sexist patronising comment of the thread. So female surgeons ( few and far between) frequently get into trouble - really and your evidence base is what. How belitttling ignorant and unbelievably sexist that comments like yours perpetuate the perception that women can not do the job aswell as men and are only there for PC requirements.

I think it's absolutely fine to request female only.

I had to have a paediatrician present at my first birth - they were male and very respectfully stood out the way until DC1 was born. I wouldn't have like him involved with delivery.

[quote bogoffmda]**@Twizbe* I understand. But sometimes, your surgeon (if you insisted on female) might get into difficulty and ask for assistance (that does happen a lot), and the surgeon they call on might be male.

Welcome to the most sexist patronising comment of the thread. So female surgeons ( few and far between) frequently get into trouble - really and your evidence base is what. How belitttling ignorant and unbelievably sexist that comments like yours perpetuate the perception that women can not do the job aswell as men and are only there for PC requirements.[/quote]
FFS you totally misread it.

Imagine this.. you are in theatre having a routine gynae op. You asked for a female surgeon, as is your right. Something goes awry so your surgeon asks for someone more qualified to come have a look.

This happens all the time. I worked in theatres. Have you?

Then what are you trying to achieve @XenoBitch?

@Twizbe

Then why are you arguing with those of us who are asking for female HCPs?

This.

There haven't been many posters on this thread who have questioned the motives of men who choose to go into midwifery/gynaecology etc. But that's what you've chosen to focus on.

I asked whether the feelings of these men are more important than those of the women who they are treating. Not for one second do I think that the vast majority of these men are perverts. But I do think it's a clear reflection of how men are just used to doing what they want, being able to choose easily what they do (and medicine was very much the domain of men and women were actively barred- and in the fairly recent past as well). Their passion does indeed to be more important to them- going into these roles where they know that a fairly large number of women will be uncomfortable with their presence. Some extremely so. Other women just keep quiet because it can be difficult to speak up at times in these situations. There are very few who would actively choose a male midwife for example.

Not for one second does it make them perverts but it's a pretty clear example of male privilege IMO.

Exactly.

Handmaiden.

And also foolish to think she’s the only person on this thread with experience, none of us are talking for males though.

@Twizbe that's in a pretty idealised scenario tbh. My ds1 was delivered by forceps in the operating theatre by 2 obstetricians, 1 of whom was male, with a male surgeon standing by ready to do a cs. Plus another 4 or 5 women, some of whom were midwives one an anaesthtist and the others god knows.

Expressing a preference is fine but if this go to shit most people have to be flexible if they want themselves and their baby to survive.

Im not really bothered if a male gynae or midwife feels sad that i prefer a female hcp, but i imagine they dont give it much thought

This comes up weekly!

It’s absolutely fine. I had a male midwife and felt great about it, he was excellent. Any professional worth their salt would want their patient to feel at ease, and if requesting a female MW would help a woman feel at ease then of course they can do that.

I would warn your niece though that a request can’t always be guaranteed in emergency or short staffed situations, she will be given one if they’re available but sometimes if they’re short staffed she might have to decide between being seen by a male or delaying care. Additionally she probably hasn’t thought about the fact that if she needs to see a doctor they may also be male, so I’d encourage her to request a female doctor too if they’re available.

When it comes to personal medical treatment it's not considered sexist to request same sex/gender as yourselves. Men do it for male medical and women can do the same.

I had a male gynecologist, it made my husband more uncomfortable than me. I also. Had a few obstertritions whilst I was pregnant but I had all female midwives. Did have one bloke come in to take my blood when I was mid pushing. Poor bloke I was screaming at him to go away because I didn't want my bloods taken 😅

@Porcupineintherough my examples weren't birth related. They were other gynae procedures / operations.

@Twizbe

Then what are you trying to achieve *@XenoBitch*?

My points are....

Women can absolutely ask for a female HCP.
Just because a man specialise in women's health, does not make him a pervert.

Those points are literally the ones I wanted to make.

After my emergency C section I woke up (came out of my coma) in the recovery room with two male porters standing at the end of the bed. 16 years later it still crosses my mind that they could have done anything and I would never know. So yes I will never trust all men to be safe. And therefore we need to be able to choose. It’s not based on competence it’s based on sex and my vulnerability.

[quote StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind]@XenoBitch do you struggle to understand when people feel differently to you in other situations, or is it only other women having different experiences and boundaries that you have problems with? [/quote]
I think its other peoples boundaries they have an issue with. They keep asking the same question over and over agin despite this thread full of women telling them why.

Fingers in ears

Women can even request a different midwife whenever they want. Birth is one of these matters where you are at your most vulnerable and a good midwife understands this and they want you to feel secure and safe. If you don't jell with someone then you don't.

@Feelingoktoday

After my emergency C section I woke up (came out of my coma) in the recovery room with two male porters standing at the end of the bed. 16 years later it still crosses my mind that they could have done anything and I would never know. So yes I will never trust all men to be safe. And therefore we need to be able to choose. It’s not based on competence it’s based on sex and my vulnerability.

I am sorry you felt uncomfortable. Most hospitals porters are male. I was one for 10 years. Hospital porter role seems to be something women don't go for.

Give it 20 years and there will be more females in female gynaecology then men. More women are going into medicine then men. We are only in this situation where the are male gynaecologists than women because of social history, elitism and misogamy.

Just ask a man on the street or in the pub what they think of male gynaecologists. Yet women are not allowed to choose the sex of a midwife.