Body buried wrong way round

[keepsgettingworse]

Not using normal name for this, as I've posted a lot about the two deceased and don't want it to be linked in case of future action. MNHQ have access to my past threads.

My very close relative died suddenly last year (not parent). They were fairly young. Their family had them buried in a double plot...all fine.

A couple of months ago another very close relative died (may be parent). They were buried in same grave.

At the time a few of us thought the second coffin went in the wrong way round, but all of us were too uncomfortable to speak up. Plus it was a bit of a disaster as we'd rushed up to yhe graveside, as the the hearse drove straight past us in the carpark, where we were waiting (last year the hearse stopped, family pallbearers carried the coffin and we walked behind).

When we arrived at the grave the coffin was already out!!!

We've been thinking about it and it's not right.

How can we put a headstone up when it will be at one person's feet?

It also means that peopke will be walking continuously over relative's head. We can't mark the grave, as it is in the part that only allows headstones.

It is a total fuck up!

We hsve a complication. When challenged the FD claims that the NOK ordered the body to be placed the wrong way. This can't be true as I was involved. Yes, the FD phoned NOK the day before, but said he would speak to them before the funeral. Then drove straight past us.

We never met this FD before the day, and they didn't introduce themselves. We arranged it with another, but he was off that day.

What would you do?

I would complain and if I didn't receive an acknowledgment that they were at fault and an apology I would take it further ... nafd.org.uk/
They charge enough so should show more professionalism, they're probably shitting a brick that you will want the error rectified.

You don't have to be present when the coffin is righted; given that your sister wants that to happen, she could go as representative and witness and just let you know afterwards that it's been done. If it would help your mum to think that her son and husband are now facing each other, and not being subjected to each other's smelly feet for eternity, maybe it would be worth your sucking it up for her sake?

OTOH, they are now just collections of molecules which are breaking down into particles which will eventually become stardust; their personalities are swirling around the multiverse together having a great time tagging you all each time you think of them and as long as you remember them they'll be doing that....

Did you witness the NOK say what she wanted? Because if not it is one word against another.

They are 6 feet under. Nobody will be walking over any part of them. I think these things take on huge significance when you are grieving.

I don't think it helps to make scientific claims about this. Everyone has their own beliefs about death. Just because you might believe one thing, someone else might believe another. A funeral and burial is about honouring this for both the deceased and living. People seem to be willing to accept this in other cultures and religions, but not in our own. A head stone is a head stone for a reason. It is rooted in our culture and religious pasts. If this is important to the family it should be respected. Regardless of what you or I believe or 'know'.

Would it feel any better if you were able to have both a headstone and foot stone or /plus a stone that covered the entire plot? That would reduce the risk of anyone walking across the ‘wrong’ end.

What would your Dad have wanted?

Do certainly complain about specific issues. No need to accuse anyone of lying, it’s enough to say, ‘that is not what happened.’

If you have a remedy or wish for compensation or an apology then state it clearly. But try not to let these details, distressing as they are, dominate your thoughts now. Concentrate on supporting your DM and allowing yourself to grieve.

My Dad died last year during the pandemic. It was a very tough time. My way of coping with it all is to allow myself to think that it’s ok no not be ok with it all and to focus on my lovely Dad in better times.

Best wishes.

I am so sorry for your losses, OP.

I agree that exhumation would probably be even more traumatizing, so I hope you and your family can be at peace with the directions of the coffins, and I think you're right not to focus on that as a solution.

It sounds like you've received poor service from the FD, and you're absolutely right to complain about that--perhaps it will prevent another family from experiencing the same in the future, and hopefully feel like a resolution to you and the NOK.

Best wishes and much sympathy for your loss.

I can totally understand understand why OP and her Mum are upset at being told her Mum was asked and had consented to something she hadn't. I think if it wasn't a funeral then the replies would be very different.

Most people would be angry at being told they were asked and had agreed to something they hadn't. It's stressful and annoying, without it being about deceased loved ones. I'm surprised at the amount of people telling OP to let it go or that it doesn't matter. If I posted and said a socket was installed upside down and the salesman said I'd been asked and had consented to it when I hadn't, I'd be told to complain. Even if I was ok with leaving the socket upside down, I'd be told it's not ok to lie to cover their own backs and to complain about that.

Op doesn't want her family digging up and changing round, an apology would have been enough by the sounds of it, but to lie and say they were asked and it was agreed to shouldn't be let go. An apology is due.

Sorry for your loss op

@keepsgettingworse

My baby daughter's coffin was kicked into the grave as the hole wasn't large enough. That traumatised me. I guess it shouldn't have as she was dead.

Not sure what I want done. I'm more upset that he lied about NOK.

That is utterly disgusting. I am so sorry you were all put through that.

I’d be annoyed but will it cause more distress if the grave is dug up?

@keepsgettingworse I sympathise, I would be upset too if this happened to my loved one. Funerals follow a certain ritual and if the arrangements deviate from this, it's bound to cause upset. This final farewell is important and can really help with the grieving process, so to have something so distracting happen must be very disruptive.

We have these ceremonies because they have a meaning for us so to say this mistake really doesn't matter and that the dead won't mind really misses the point.

But you will be fine eventually. I think you need an apology, and I also think you need to speak with someone who could help put what happened into perspective a little - in my case this would probably have been a priest, for you it could be somebody different.

You obviously know how you feel, so just do what you think is right.

Don't post on the internet to ask strangers what they would do then get annoyed when they tell you.

@WishingWell5

If it matters to you, it matter. Simple as that. Can you phone the regulatory body for advice (NAFD)?

This is my stance exactly.

How others feel about it does not matter. I think you should complain even if you do not want it remedied. Also, give bad reviews online if FD won’t acknowledge the error.

@Babdoc

Some PPs are being very dismissive of burial traditions re grave orientation. Many Christian sects bury bodies facing east, as the traditional direction from which Christ will return at the second Coming. Only ministers are buried the other way round to face their congregation. Muslims may be interred to face Mecca. Jews in mixed cemeteries were sometimes buried facing west to distinguish them from Christians. Just because you may not care about burial orientation, it does not follow that OP agrees with you. She is entitled, as the person paying the funeral director, to have her instructions followed to the letter. OP, I would take it up with the FD. Perhaps an admission of guilt re lying, and an apology, would be enough to give you closure. If not, you would need to formally apply for an exhumation, but that is not granted lightly, and usually only when a crime is suspected, or the body is to be transported and buried elsewhere.

I found your post interesting.

When you say people are buried facing East does this mean their face is turned to the East and they are not lying flat on their back?

I only ask because my experience is of Muslim burials and people are placed slightly turned towards Mecca.

At the very least you need to lodge a complaint with the FD. About both issues. But separate them as they are two distinct issues.

Then register a complaint with their official body. Again, separating the two issues.

Assess what they both say, then make a decision as to what to do next based on this.

At the moment everything is up in the air and you're in turmoil about both issues. Which is understandable.

I can also understand why you're upset about the casket being the wrong way round. That's disgraceful. But a bit of time, the official complaints, the results of those, will give you some space and information about how to proceed after that.

Meant with the greatest respect - unless you have been with your mum 24/7 then you don’t really know for certain that the ‘position’ was discussed. It may be standard to place them this way unless otherwise specified. My mum remembers very, very little about things that were said and done when my dad died. There may have been a phone call or visit that your mum literally just doesn’t remember. My mum certainly mixed things up due to grief, but also remembers little or nothing of some things.

I do understand that you are upset and angry by this and that you have the right to complain.

But first take some time to think calmly about what you want the outcome of the complaint to be.

@Lavender24

I would no nothing. With respect, I don't think people walking over the head is any different to walking over the feet.

I agree.

Undertakers know their job.

I'm sorry you have been so much bereaved.

Op, I have a relative who was placed in the wrong plot.

It was easy to do because the family had bought up a row of plots prior to a cemetery filling up. Anyway it turned out he’d accidentally been put in the plot that was for two other relatives, a husband and wife, and it then took a lot of paperwork to transfer plots so that where he was buried his mum would eventually be with him as planned. It was extremely upsetting for the family but at least we found out when all of the plots were empty.

I don’t know how you’ll sort this situation out but could you perhaps put a small wrought iron rail around the actual grave so people can’t stand on it all?

I'm sorry for your loss.

Could you get one of those memorials that are like sort of little stone walls filled with gravel that cover the whole grave. That would at least stop people walking on it? Or I have seen ones that have a little white picket fence that does the same thing that would be less expensive.

I hadn't given any thought at all as to ''~Head~'' orientation with burials..
However, I'd be reluctant to disturb a grave.
Why wasn't anything said at the actual time?

It was insensitive of any funeral director to 'Kick' a child's coffin into the ground... they should have ensured the hole was large enough.

One of the most distressing things I had to do as a teenager doing a holiday job was ''Removing mementoes'' from rose bushes at a crematorium.
I was approached by two grieving parents, and I said ''I totally agree, you should be able to leave things here''...But the superintendent was of the mindset that ''Things get tatty, and where does it end?''

Luckily where Dad is buried they are more understanding.

I doubt if your Next of Kin minds either way...They are Spirit now, freed from their Earthly body.

Sorry for your Losses, @keepsgettingworse.

The people saying oh its just a body blah blah,that is someone's much loved family member you are talking about. How would you like it if someone referred to your deceased parents like that??!!

My mum died. couple of months ago. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest - it is true. She wasn't there any more.

@keepsgettingworse - Is a grave that it is planned someone else will be buried in eventually?

Can you get a commitment that when that time eventually comes that the person who is buried the wrong way around also gets corrected at that time? Would that help? Or be more distressing?

@keepsgettingworse I am so sorry for what you have been through, and for your losses, and what happened to your DD. And you do have a right to make a complaint!

But please don't feel bad about their 'bodies...' As a number of posters have said, their bodies are merely vessels containing their souls, and they are in a different dimension, looking down on you.

I hope you get this sorted, and make peace with it all.