Body buried wrong way round

[keepsgettingworse]

Not using normal name for this, as I've posted a lot about the two deceased and don't want it to be linked in case of future action. MNHQ have access to my past threads.

My very close relative died suddenly last year (not parent). They were fairly young. Their family had them buried in a double plot...all fine.

A couple of months ago another very close relative died (may be parent). They were buried in same grave.

At the time a few of us thought the second coffin went in the wrong way round, but all of us were too uncomfortable to speak up. Plus it was a bit of a disaster as we'd rushed up to yhe graveside, as the the hearse drove straight past us in the carpark, where we were waiting (last year the hearse stopped, family pallbearers carried the coffin and we walked behind).

When we arrived at the grave the coffin was already out!!!

We've been thinking about it and it's not right.

How can we put a headstone up when it will be at one person's feet?

It also means that peopke will be walking continuously over relative's head. We can't mark the grave, as it is in the part that only allows headstones.

It is a total fuck up!

We hsve a complication. When challenged the FD claims that the NOK ordered the body to be placed the wrong way. This can't be true as I was involved. Yes, the FD phoned NOK the day before, but said he would speak to them before the funeral. Then drove straight past us.

We never met this FD before the day, and they didn't introduce themselves. We arranged it with another, but he was off that day.

What would you do?

A year after my Mum died me, my grieving Dad and my 2 toddlers (2 and 3 years olds) tried to plant bulbs by my Mums headstone.

Dad was upset, earth was hard, toddler's were trying to help.

Dad kept wailing "they're standing on her". It was a total farce!

My Mum would have been roaring with laughter looking down at us.

If you don't want an exhumation then you need to focus on what you do want to help you grieve. I am sure your relatives wouldn't want you to be so so overwhelmed with this.

I think you need to think about how the deceased (if alive and able to express their last wishes) would have felt……
If on reflection you feel that they wouldn’t have been happy and of course, you are not happy …then take steps to get it rectified. Just bear in mind though, that if you weren’t happy with the first bunch of clowns then why get them back again? There could be further indignity and risk involved in the procedure.
I’d be tempted to appoint a new firm to make rectify and get the old firm to foot the bill if you don’t feel you can trust them.
But, if you feel the deceased would not have been concerned about the mishap ..,I’d leave it be. Your duty is to honour THEIR wishes not your own really.

yes I get that but how does this change what has happened this time?

Have you no empathy at all, godmum?

This distressing situation wouldn't bother you, but it is upsetting the OP and her DM. People are entitled to their feelings, and no-one has the right to dismiss them as irrelevant or excessive.

I’m with you OP. It absolutely does matter

I think there's a focus on the thread of the emotions this brings up and of grief, but if you get down to the issue at hand, a provider of a service has done a shoddy job and has lied to cover his own ass.

Why wouldn't the OP want to address that? I would.

You're entirely justified complaining about the Funeral Director. He was rude and unfeeling. Find out if he is a member of the NAFD.

However, for the body...I'm an atheist so I believe once the person has died that's it. I don't believe people have souls, either. Only the memories of how the person impacted our lives - good and bad - remains on Earth. By that I mean their legacy, and what that means to those left behind. The body is just a vessel.

Find out all you can on your relatives. Talk to people about them. Collect photos. Re-live your memories. Visit special places. That's where they are, not in a hole in the ground.

Ouch some of these answers are a bit harsh 😞 Sorry for your loss OP.

OP, I'm sorry for your losses.

I understand the upset caused, I would feel the same. It sounds like things were badly done, and then to compound it, the funeral directors are trying to blame it on the next of kin. I have never heard of a situation where a family asked or has had to ask for the coffin to be placed a particular way. I expect a funeral director to know how to do their job.

And yes, I would complain.

ah OP I can see why this is distressing.

I would complain too x

I understand that it matters to you but I think your grief is clouding your judgement. They made a mistake, it happens but even an apology won't really help you. Get through this stage of grief and give it time before you choose what to do. In a few weeks you'll see it from a different perspective.

Sorry for your loss op

It's not something that would bother me.

I think it's understandable this was upsetting for you. Especially as you felt your baby dd's coffin wasn't treated with the respect it deserved.
I can see why this would upset you as when you visit the grave you'd feel like you were facing the wrong way when facing the grave. You could ask for the body to be moved if you want to

I think the OP is consumed with grief and my heart goes out to her. But she needs to take some time and distance and think what she wants.

I did some rechecking...

Traditionally bodies lie in the grave east to west, facing east as the resurrection is as the sun rising.

By turning that round the FD shows his unawareness of the rules and traditions. Which is unprofessional in the extreme. Facing east is very important.

Yes make a formal complaint.

Interesting re priests … Hmmm.....

@keepsgettingworse

Thank you all. I haven't grieved at all yet.

We will complain (don't want him exhumed). But the FD was horrible, made us hurry and now, when confronted by colleagues, is lying that we specified it. It may not be a big problem, but he made a mistake and is blaming us, that needs addressing, as it would with sny other mistake and lying.

Your issue is with the way the FD dealt with the whole situation. Poor communication and carelessness is inexcusable and you can put in a complaint (if they are registered).

The funeral industry is not regulated properly:

The National Association of Funeral Directors serves the profession, but subscription to the NAFD is entirely voluntary. If someone does something against their Code of Practice, they just get a fine.

There were plans for it to be financially regulated (pre payment plans and the like):
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/27/government-faces-calls-to-speed-up-regulation-of-funeral-industry

It’s a disgrace that such a huge industry has no official government body behind it.

Ahh thank you all. We have an appointment with FD (not on responsible, he just took over as FD was away that day).

Yes I'm focusing on that.

I was involved in both burials. Dad chose the plot as he knew he was dying, so chose to have a plot for his son that he could be buried with him.

It was NOTHING to do with Covid. The burial was a few weeks ago, there were NO restrictions.

I was with mum when it was arranged. She asked for it to be the same as Dbro. It was agreed.

The FD was away and said he'd pass on details to his stand in. This person spoke to mum and said he'd go over the arrangements, at the cemetery, before the funeral. He didn't. I'm certain of this as we picked her up and took her.

It's the lying and callous way he redirected blame, when confronted by colleagues we are upset by. Why would he even ask that?

I think dad and Dbro would moan about facing each other's smelly feet .

Thanks for all replies. It's helped me to realise wgat we don't want. Mjm is distressed though.

Traditionally bodies lie in the grave east to west, facing east as the resurrection is as the sun rising.
I wasn't aware of that. In my two local graveyards (Ireland) and any other I can think of, the graves are arranged so that two headstones are placed back to back, so while one body might face east, the one behind it would face west.

@MummBraTheEverLeaking

I think there's a focus on the thread of the emotions this brings up and of grief, but if you get down to the issue at hand, a provider of a service has done a shoddy job and has lied to cover his own ass.

Why wouldn't the OP want to address that? I would.

Yes, this.

I am surprised there are so many "I don't see the problem" posts on this thread.

I'm sorry you had a distressing experience OP. I don't think it was acceptable and I think a gracious apology from the FD would go a long way in helping you to move on.

It's probably worth pointing out that 'getting this fixed' is not the same as, for example, recalling builders who've put a wall in the wrong place. You'd be asking for an exhumation, which requires very specific legal permission and licences, even if you are reinterring in the same spot.

Are you sure you want to put yourself - or anyone else - through that?

I’m so sorry this has happened. It obviously matters a lot to you and thinking if it was my granny it would to me too.

The only way to rectify is to move her though, would that be acceptable to you? Otherwise I don’t know what the solution is.

💐

I have buried a child and parents. While I know it might sound stupid, I know which way my child's coffin was placed (on his grandfathers knees, more or less) and that was important to me. If he had been placed at the top of the grave over grandfathers head I'd have thought that wrong. So while it may sound unreasonable it's just the way I feel about it and that's not wrong for me. @keepsgettingworse you are entitled to feel upset. I hope you manage to get a resolution that gives you peace

@keepsgettingworse

I too would be upset and I agree you should complain.

I think if the coffin has been buried the wrong way round it shows disrespect for the deceased, and the lying about it is not only deeply unprofessional on the part of the FD, but hugely insulting and disrespectful to the family.

I hope you get it resolved.

Some PPs are being very dismissive of burial traditions re grave orientation.
Many Christian sects bury bodies facing east, as the traditional direction from which Christ will return at the second Coming. Only ministers are buried the other way round to face their congregation.
Muslims may be interred to face Mecca. Jews in mixed cemeteries were sometimes buried facing west to distinguish them from Christians.
Just because you may not care about burial orientation, it does not follow that OP agrees with you. She is entitled, as the person paying the funeral director, to have her instructions followed to the letter.
OP, I would take it up with the FD. Perhaps an admission of guilt re lying, and an apology, would be enough to give you closure. If not, you would need to formally apply for an exhumation, but that is not granted lightly, and usually only when a crime is suspected, or the body is to be transported and buried elsewhere.

@KrisAkabusi

Traditionally bodies lie in the grave east to west, facing east as the resurrection is as the sun rising. I wasn't aware of that. In my two local graveyards (Ireland) and any other I can think of, the graves are arranged so that two headstones are placed back to back, so while one body might face east, the one behind it would face west.

Same as ours - more recent graves are back to back - but in a relatives local graveyard the graves are all sideways to the road, facing in the traditional direction. I only heard of that tradition in recent years and I think it was dd who told me after learning about it in school.