To not help my neighbor

[boxonthehill]

My neighbour is elderly (I'm positively youthful at 40). I moved in just before lockdown and we've got quite close - I take her meals and get a bit of shopping in and since lockdown has ended she's been coming in once a week for her tea and to watch eastenders. She's quite hard work but sweet enough and I'm not working at the moment due to ill health so it makes me feel like I'm useful in some way. All good so far.

She's got 2 adult sons and a daughter who live in different parts of town about 15 minutes away. They all work full time but all drive including her son in law. The boys wives don't drive, one works and one is a SAHM with 2 kids at school and near a bus route.

So... neighbour has been taken in to hospital with heart problems and they discovered she has blood clots. They've told her she needs to be injected every day at home. They won't send someone out and although they could do it for her in hospital she'd have to travel in every day for this (40 minute bus drive).

She's asked me to do it and says im the only one - children won't because they're too busy.

I feel really uncomfortable with this. To begin with I had very unsteady hands. Can hold a pen and knife and fork etc but couldn't thread a needle or accurately use tweezers. I have no medical training (although they say this isn't needed at all). Im quite squeamish (I know that's a silly reason).

I suppose overall I feel like it's too much pressure. If I got it wrong I'd feel terrible. I feel like I have no business injecting this elderly woman whom I'm no relation to! It all feels really wrong somehow. I think the children (I say children, they're all 30s/40s) should make a rota and do it themselves.

Am I unreasonable to say no? My second worry is that she'll ask me to accompany her on the bus to the hospital each day which I also don't want to do because of my own health problems that she's not aware of.

How do I handle this?!

@aprilanne

These injections will be clexine it's not like taking blood or anything like that no vein needed to get to it's a tiny needle its into any fleshy part of your stomach its literally lidt your top top of needle quick stab that's it about three seconds I would give it a go if I was you .

I think to a certain extent this misses the point. OP is being asked to do quite intimate personal care. It’s not on a level with bringing a bag of shopping.

@Emilyontmoor

I have both given these anti clotting injections to a family member and white blood cell boosting ones to myself.

The anti clotting ones can hurt a lot and often leave a mark, in fact family member still has some marks even now two years later (though as a redhead she is very fair skinned and also has a low pain threshold). There is no way I would be prepared to have the responsibility for doing them to an old person who was just an acquaintance. It was bad enough doing it for someone I had cared for from babyhood.

I hated doing them to myself, I never in six months got used to it. It was a battle with my willpower to stick that needle in and it often took me to the verge of tears (and those didn't actually hurt). Luckily a nurse friend did them when she could.

She needs a health care professional if her family are not able to do it.

Keep saying no!

I have to agree with you that the anti clotting ones can hurt. In fact they can hurt like blazes even when a professional is doing them let alone anyone else.

I take my hat off to you for doing them yourself. I’d have quite honestly taken a chance on a clot if I’d had to do them myself. I just couldn’t do the injection and I’m feeling quite jittery just thinking about it.

@GoWalkabout
Very good idea to be straight up.

You are a nice neighbour, but it will sour your relationship very quickly to find you are being expected to do caring that is not your responsibility.

I have come across so many cases of this through friends and acquaintances where very kind neighbours were imposed upon and in one case getting a snotty text when she text she was going away for a 3 week holiday.
That snotty text cost this person to withdraw her services after the holiday and give the daughter a real earful that she wasn't expecting.

I wouldn't hesitate to help out a neighbour with a bit of shopping etc. but there is no way I would allow someone to commandeer into a PA/carer role without my agreement.

Themorethemerrier The ones I struggled to do myself were actually white blood cell boosting injections during chemo. They don’t hurt which actually makes me a wimp but I think that during chemo it was adding insult to injury plus this was in the days before anti nausea drugs so after losing a couple of stone there was no fat to grab hold of….

Good to know family member wasn’t deliberately stressing me out when she screamed and then clenched her teeth for several minutes after….

Just to point out though that agency carers won't normally administer injections. It is regarded as a nursing task.
Good on you for sticking to your guns though.

@boxonthehill

No the hospital haven't called me. If they did that I would definitely make it clear I wasn't taking the responsibility. It's the going behind her back I don't like the idea of.

Are you able to visit her in hospital, my thought process is that you could get chatting to a nurse and casually say if they have arranged a DN as unfortunately you can't commit to administrating medication.

@HalzTangz I'm not all that well so I can't really go. But I think if she's still in over the next couple of days I will do. She did call me and said they've told her she has pneumonia and they're keeping her in so there may be opportunity if I'm feeling okay in the next day or two. Apparently family hadn't been

Covid has changed hospital visiting and your own health is your priority.

Oh OP. You sound like a really kind friend and neighbour. I think you're a lot nicer than me but I'd stay away from the hospital and the whole situation for now to avoid being further embroiled.

I wonder if she is actually telling you everything. Visiting is probably restricted, if she has an infection she may well be confused about who has been and when. Likewise not be realistic about the support available.

Why can't the hospital refer to the District Nurses to come out and administer, if nobody is prepared/able to do it?

@Singinghollybob

Why can't the hospital refer to the District Nurses to come out and administer, if nobody is prepared/able to do it?

they probabaly can....its amazing the number of older people who "don't want to trouble the nurses when they have such a kind neighbour"

@milkyaqua

She's got 2 adult sons and a daughter who live in different parts of town about 15 minutes away. They all work full time but all drive including her son in law.

Keep this in mind, and decline any further responsibility. You are already being an exceptionally kind neighbour.

Absolutely this...

Several points from me :

The 'children' could each do it twice or so a week and would cover it.... It would take them a maximum of 30 mins to nip over in their cars. It is THEIR responsibility... So they're busy....well they need to re prioritise to help their mum.

It's way too personal a care task... And moreover you (rightly) DON'T WANT TO DO IT!

You're slipping into an unpaid carer role... It will worsen as you'll be perceived as this nice neighbour who will do anything to help our mum/deirdre.... IT WILL BECOME AN EXPECTATION,,,, that you'll be the 'go to person'... Like if she develops worse physical health or has a stroke /develops dementia.

You can still be a good friend /neighbour without doing these tasks!

Mote importantly you have YOUR LIFE TO LEAD as well as health conditions to manage yourself!

@nokidshere

Kids are at school 8.45-3.30. That leaves a lot of ‘day’! How sad that her grown children couldn’t rally round to pop round to their mum after work/school each day on a rota.

My almost 80yr old mother has 3 children, 8 grandchildren and 6 great grandchildren all living within 10 minutes of her (I'm not one of them). They don't see her because of problems of her (mums) own making and they wouldn't do this either.

Just because someone is old doesn't mean they have been a nice person in their lives and her children might have very good reason for not seeing her.

And given the amount of times people on here are advised to go 'no contact' there will be lots of other people in the same boat.

OP someone from the surgery should be able to go to her house and do it.

This is true too...

I worked with older adults, and many times some would complain bitterly that their children /grandchildren /great grandchildren 'didn't help/visit/generally care about them'.

Often we would have to ring their families as NOK.... So so many of them told tales of earlier emotional /physical abuse... And in one case this 'lovely old lady', had, as a younger adult turned a blind eye to their father /step father raping these poor children.

Some of these old people are the old versions of the parents that people are advised to go low/ no contact with.

@boxonthehill

No the hospital haven't called me. If they did that I would definitely make it clear I wasn't taking the responsibility. It's the going behind her back I don't like the idea of.

Does it matter which way it goes? Who has called who?

I think her embarrassment doesn't trump your need not to get dragged in further as an unpaid carer.

OP,
I really think you need to tread carefully and warily.

3 children living nearby and not one going to the hospital??

That is strange.

I really think you need to tread carefully.
Whatever about two sons being slow to help it is unusual that her daughter is nowhere to be seen considering how closely they live to her.

@Cuck00soup

Oh no, just read your update. Please do call the hospital. They won't be able to discuss her with but can listen to you.

Bluntly, if they hospital don't know there is no one to give the injections, they won't organise alternative care. Don't leave yourself in a position where you are emotionally blackmailed into given her injections "because there is no alternative".

I'm always very happy when responsible neighbours ring up. It means the right discharge plan can be set up.

People saying 'don't ring', it's kicking the can down the road..

I'd ring.

THIS CALL WOULD BE FOR YOU.
SO YOURE NOT REGISTERED AS A CARER.

They can't make the right referrals if they don't realise NO ONE IS AVAILABLE.

It will save you more hassle in the long term.

@IamtheDevilsAvocado I suppose because if they call me then she's obviously given my details and if I'm asked an outright question I wouldn't lie. But to contact them without permission feels off.

It sounds like a huge red flag to me that none of her family visited her in hospital.

I think you're doing the right thing pulling back OP. I don't know what the right step is regarding contacting the hospital but ultimately no one can force you to give the injections.

@rookiemere

It sounds like a huge red flag to me that none of her family visited her in hospital.

I think you're doing the right thing pulling back OP. I don't know what the right step is regarding contacting the hospital but ultimately no one can force you to give the injections.

The problem is, that if they don't know there's no-one to give the injections they'll just send her home with boxes of them; and you'll find her on your doorstep clutching them. You MUST let them know before discharge.

She's told them I can't do it. I mean, she may be lying but to call would be to accuse her of lying. I've got no reason to think she's lied, if she has then I'll have to contact social services or the GP. I'll cross that bridge if I need to when it comes. And I'll come back here and eat my words I'm firm enough in my decision now that I won't be doing it even if she does arrive on the doorstep.

If she was mentally incapable I'd think otherwise but despite being very old and doddery she's got all her faculties.

So in fact this old lady is getting no support from social services etc? She is not even claiming all she is entitled to ?

There is something very amiss there.

She must feel abandoned.

Maybe call CAB without giving names and ask what help there can be for her? They were always a mine of accurate and helpful info

And the same is true here.
I was selling at a craft fair - I am visibly disabled and clearly old - when an offduty social worker crouched by my chair and went through it all with me.

There has to be some official input to support this old lady.

And please. folk. stop accusing and blaming her. I would be terrified in her situation were I so ill. I have far off family who will and do intervene. She has no one.

I'm not privy to her finances or what input she's getting. I have gently raised it with her but the conversation was shut down, as is her right.

I did take in a load of food the church brought round for her this morning which would suggest someone somewhere knows she struggling.

When she's home I will try to have the conversation again but ultimately although we've become fairly close, I am a relative stranger so I don't want to get overly invested beyond the social element and offering dinners.

@SoloISland there are relatives that live close that could offer this support, OP has explained why in her personal circumstances, she is unable to. It is sad for the lady- of course it is - but OP is doing more than enough already.

[quote rookiemere]@SoloISland there are relatives that live close that could offer this support, OP has explained why in her personal circumstances, she is unable to. It is sad for the lady- of course it is - but OP is doing more than enough already.[/quote]
But they will not and it makes it all the more vital that officially someone is responsible for caring for her and NOT the OP.

I did not mention/intend any more input by the Op who is a saint already. I said clearly this needs to be caring within official tenets and responsibility.

The lady is ill and will not be strong for a while and needs and has a right to proper official care going forward,