Stranger touched baby’s face - AIBU?

[summerisler]

In a cafe with my two small DC earlier today. DD just turned 1. As I was cutting up some food for her, an elderly man suddenly appeared at the side of her pram. He picked up a toy that I wasn’t aware she had dropped and then reached out and stroked and pinched her cheek. He reached out so fast that I had no time to react to stop him. I have a real dislike of people touching strangers babies. When DS was a baby I was stopped on a zebra crossing by a woman demanding to see him in his sling, and a woman in a cafe asked me if she could hold him. I said no and she very loudly badmouthed me to her friends at the next table - which I just thought was bonkers. Who lets a total stranger in a cafe just hold their child?

Back to today - I approached the man and told him that I was upset that he felt it appropriate to touch my baby’s face. For context, today was the first day we’ve been to an indoor cafe since I was in the early stages of pregnancy with DD. I was polite but made my upset known and he apologised.

Is this a generational thing? I would never touch a baby without asking the parent/cater for permission. Curious to know thoughts on this. I don’t think I was unreasonable telling this man he was in the wrong.

A random elderly woman once kissed my newborn son in his buggy in Bluewater.

I was too shocked to respond as it was over as soon as I’d realised. I think she was just happy to see a small baby. She was pleasant enough. It wasn’t creepy or anything, just a bit odd. I don’t think she thought there was anything unusual about it!

@Member869894

YABU. I remeber years ago getting on a bus with my two month old and toddler and assorted bags. There was a an old lady opposite my seat and she offered to take him whilst I got on.I sat opposite her about a meter away for the whole journey watching her holding him and gazing at him adoringly and giving him the odd kiss on the top of his head. It was beautiful

Good for you. I bet it made her day. The world has gone made with people being way to precious with their kids. We all love and adore our kids of course we do but that was plain nasty Older people love seeing babies and toddlers it brightens their day. I bet he went home and was really upset Totally uncalled for

I’ve only heard of it on here over the last few years, maybe because on social media there’s a big enough pond to find someone else to share your neurosis and feel justified

Excellent point. There is also (even pre-Covid) a general antipathy to social interaction and an idea that you are doing anybody a massive favour by interacting with them that I had never encountered until MN - and I say that as a rampant introvert 😀

I don't think it's a MN thing - MN is just reflecting views that I find sad and strange.

I think the point you may have overlooked is that I'm not a baby.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow 👏 your posts on this thread have been spot on!

Nonetheless, I still think the OP is addressing a legitimate feminist issue.

What?

Views on this have definitely changed. I think society has changed a lot and not necessarily or the better. Someone posted up thread about how neurotic young mothers were telling the village to fuck off, thereby creating a society where nobody is allowed to help raise the next generation.

This is clearly, (and I use this word advisedly), bollocks. This hasn't happened overnight or in a vacuum that young 'uns have all conspired to be mean and nasty to poor old gents who just want to be nice to the ickle babies. Wise up.

As I've said before, I'd not do what op did, but the ensuing posts about the yoof of today {clutch pearls} and how mean they are to nice old men has irked me.

If you want to get into it, my experience has been that older generations in my family took full advantage of 'the village' when their DC's were little and now point blank refuse to help. Eg my in laws who dumped their kids at their parents every weekend, so they could have couple time have never watched our DC's (their grandkids). On MN the accepted logic is "well, they aren't obligated to watch your DCs. Your DCs, your problem". Ok, fine . I accept that entirely. But that logic goes out the window when random people want a cuddle with someone else's baby. Then it's "aw you're all SO MEAN and horrible. You're the reason society is the way it is". Piss off frankly. It is not just one generation and it certainly hasn't happened overnight. Have a fucking word with yourselves.

I have got to the stage in life where my children are grown but not had babies of their own. They are the eldest out of their cousins, but none of those are babies or toddlers anymore and I miss the joy of being around a baby or young child.

Most of the time it's fine, life is busy and you don't notice but then every so often you find yourself on a bus, or in the supermarket queue next to a parent and young child. Suddenly you remember your babies being younger and family life. A connection to the past.

I do smile and I do chat to them, but I tell you what, I hope with all my heart there will be grandchildren whose cheek I can stroke and hand I can hold in the not too distant future.

YANBU op, this is all to common in the older generation but nonetheless, it is odd and weird behaviour.
I'm astounded that most on here think it's acceptable. Would they be OK with a random stranger coming up and touching/ pinching/ stroking their own face or bodily part? I think not.
A baby/ child has the same rights as any human but they rely on their parents to voice it for them.
This is aside from the fact that he is blatantly ignoring social distancing and covid (prob think he's OK as he's double jabbed 🙄).
I would feel sickened by his actions, so I applaud you for telling him that he shouldn't be doing it, it's wrong on so many levels and these people need educating.

@Soubriquet

Who lets a total stranger in a cafe just hold their child?

I did. An elderly woman kept looking at ds from across the room and looking really Misty eyed, so I offered to let her hold him. It made her year. Her husband had passed and she never had any children

But I know that’s not the norm.

That’s so sweet 🥲 of you, I can imagine how she was feeling afterwards. Maybe it’s the first time she’s held a baby.

@Soubriquet a whole succession of random elderly ladies held my two as babies. Seems quite a normal thing to me, in supermarket cafes particularly. My MiL is still indignant that her cuddle with pfb was once usurped by a lady in M&S.

Oh for goodness sake how ridiculous. Talk about over sensitive. I dont know how people manage to get out of bed these days they are so uptight.
In Italy where I come from he,d have pinched my cheek too.
Anyway this story is in the mirror online now.

I would feel sickened by his actions, so I applaud you for telling him that he shouldn't be doing it, it's wrong on so many levels and these people need educating
You feel sick that a baby, who showed no sign of upset at it happening, was touched on the face in kindness?
And whilst I'd find it very odd for an elderly person to touch my hand, foot or face in a clearly none sexual way, I wouldn't be sickened by it. I'd worry what had happened in someone's past that an innocent gesture was interpreted as predatory

@starlight13

YANBU op, this is all to common in the older generation but nonetheless, it is odd and weird behaviour. I'm astounded that most on here think it's acceptable. Would they be OK with a random stranger coming up and touching/ pinching/ stroking their own face or bodily part? I think not. A baby/ child has the same rights as any human but they rely on their parents to voice it for them. This is aside from the fact that he is blatantly ignoring social distancing and covid (prob think he's OK as he's double jabbed 🙄). I would feel sickened by his actions, so I applaud you for telling him that he shouldn't be doing it, it's wrong on so many levels and these people need educating.

You'd feel sickened? Jesus. Yes someone needs educating but it's not the people you think 😂

@Raggedyanabell

Who pinches a baby's face. Where on earth do you come from where this ok?
So if a stranger came up to you or your child/baby and asked you upfront "excuse me, is it ok if I just stroke and pinch your/ baby's face?".
You would say, "yes, sure go ahead".
I'd find it weird.

Why are people still likening it to an adult to adult interaction?

That is not what happens inside your brain.

Adult to baby interactions use completely different parts, it’s hardwired.

[quote starlight13]@Raggedyanabell

Who pinches a baby's face. Where on earth do you come from where this ok?
So if a stranger came up to you or your child/baby and asked you upfront "excuse me, is it ok if I just stroke and pinch your/ baby's face?".
You would say, "yes, sure go ahead".
I'd find it weird.[/quote]
When someone talks about pinching a child's cheeks it is clearly not a hard painful pinch surely you can imagine what is meant by that.
As an adult I don't interact with other adults the way I do with children or babies, but no I don't expect to give my consent for every brief friendly interaction with other people. Context.

I don't find it weird at all! I loved all the attention my babies got, and tbh even in Covid times your bsby is 1 so not a fresh out of the womb newborn!

Poor man was probably mortified you had a go at him!

I think your reaction was way OTT!

www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/mums-fury-after-elderly-man-24955904?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mirror_weird&fbclid=IwAR1Q9VZ2FvO3fRKDfH2GEDnkrMU4y4juOUk1WsDkpAdPVVZ-KiIfe5Uz4V4

Lazy journalism

I'm quite enjoying this thread for some strange reason. I was just thinking about when my youngest DC was a baby. He's 14 now and I could not get round town at all without being stopped and people wanting to look at him. He was all blond curly hair, blue eyes and freckles with a face full of sunshine. He loved the attention. It was so good for him. I've always encouraged my children to interact with strangers obviously under my supervision. Wave bye bye. That kind of thing. It's so very important to help them understand the world. Babies absolutely are hardwired to respond to faces. There are a million studies on the benefits for babies to have face stimulus and a kind stroke on face will reinforce this.

I've said about my experience earlier on in the thread where a little girl was reprimanded by a dick head mother who didn't like her pfb being admired and stroked on the leg by this child. If this shit carries on the world is fucked.

It's no more right and proper to touch a child not your own, than It is to touch an adult stranger. Anyone who thinks it's ok as it's a child is very much mistaken and the child's parent has every right to be put out.

@Raggedyanabell

"When someone talks about pinching a child's cheeks it is clearly not a hard painful pinch surely you can imagine what is meant by that.
As an adult I don't interact with other adults the way I do with children or babies, but no I don't expect to give my consent for every brief friendly interaction with other people. Context."

The context here is that it was done without the mother being aware and it has clearly made her feel uncomfortable. But as long as it's done on the sly, without consent then you feel it's OK. All the work and awareness we are teaching our children about consent is ruined by people with your "ah it's OK, it's only a child" attitude. This is so upsetting. Consent overrides context.

I truly find your attitude and actions very upsetting.

You did a horrid thing to someone who showed you and your child a kindness. You've turned his innocent, and perfectly normal, touch into something that has probably been hugely upsetting and bewildering to he and his wife.

Out of the adults in this scenario I'd rather share a dinner table with them than you.

[quote starlight13]@Raggedyanabell

"When someone talks about pinching a child's cheeks it is clearly not a hard painful pinch surely you can imagine what is meant by that.
As an adult I don't interact with other adults the way I do with children or babies, but no I don't expect to give my consent for every brief friendly interaction with other people. Context."

The context here is that it was done without the mother being aware and it has clearly made her feel uncomfortable. But as long as it's done on the sly, without consent then you feel it's OK. All the work and awareness we are teaching our children about consent is ruined by people with your "ah it's OK, it's only a child" attitude. This is so upsetting. Consent overrides context.[/quote]
"Done on the sly" ??? What are you talking about? This was a completely innocent interaction in full view of the child's parent. Nothing about what the OP said has implied slyness.

Don't misrepresent my post please. I didn't say consent isn't important because "it's just a child" but context is important, normal interactions with fellow humans is a completely normal every day occurrence and not strange in the slightest.
I have a child who I happily watched interacting with other adults. I have managed to still model respect and talk about consent and safety (in a child friendly manner) in the appropriate context. He knows not to wander off with strangers or give out personal information, he knows he doesn't have to hug anyone he doesn't want to because there are times it will naturally come up, for example when he's grumpy and doesn't want to hug me etc but he also knows that it's perfectly normal to smile and wave, say hello/goodbye to people and brief physical contact with other people isn't a big deal.
Again context.

I don't expect someone to find me super cute and touch my cheek because I'm an adult, not an adorable baby..but if I'm talking to someone and they touch my arm or if I'm showing off my nails and they touch my hand to look or showing off my hair and they touched it (all things that have happened to me) I'm not going to tell them off or lecture them on consent, that would be ridiculous. It makes a laughing stock of the real issue of consent.

Too much power gone to your head, OP, obviously. What appalling behaviour on your part - rude, entitled and tyrannical.

I’ve owned nurseries for the past 20 years, and it’s brought me into the orbit of hundreds, maybe thousands, of young parents. Many of them have been horrible bullies. It’s human nature, I suppose. Having a baby gives them a bit of power, and it goes to their heads and they abuse it. Horrible.