For viewing my H with contempt

[needsomeperspective]

My H and I have now been married for almost 13 years. Two children. He has long term mental health issues stemming from an abusive childhood. Frankly I have known for a decade that he has BPD. He takes anti anxiety meds and anti psychotics (when he can be bothered to keep on top of them or as long as I police him like a child). He hasn’t had any job in over six years, no “real” job in ten. He spends much of his time sleeping in very late while I work my ass off to keep our family (and my mother) financially solid - fortunately I have a very good job - but along with that comes it’s own stresses for me as I am responsible for over 300 staff.

I’m lucky enough to have help with the kids and a cleaner. I’ve deliberately arranged my life so that I do not have to rely on my husband in any material way - because he isn’t dependable. He has cheated on me, he used to be emotionally volatile, now he is just an apathetic lump.

He is, all challenges considered, often a loving, kind and involved father and the children undoubtedly benefit from having him in their lives and in their home.

From my perspective we have an almost non existent sex life, and I frequently feel like I’m running a doss house for vagrants than participating in some kind of partnership. But it’s better than having no one. We’ve been very isolated during Covid.

I put in place (following his infidelity) a cast iron post nup which he agreed to sign so I’m not “trapped” in this marriage for financial reasons but I do feel that the children would be much better off if we stayed together and frankly I can’t see how I’d be happier as a single parent compared to this inadequate and pathetic marriage I’m in right now. Some sex is better than none - or one night stands with morons. At least I have someone to visit IKEA with.

How do I reconcile myself to the limitations of this situation and generate the compassion to view my husband as a victim of his mental health issues rather than a useless, feckless, contemptible burden surgically attached to the sofa and piggy backing on my years of relentless hard work - which frankly I often feel.

Unlike quite a few threads on here where it can very well descend into a LTB pile on for the most marginal of reasons, in this case I do have to ask why are you still with this man?

Yes, he's had the bad childhood but he's not a child anymore and he's had children. You say he's involved but is he really or are you making excuses for him?

What example are your children getting? That's it ok for them to be absolute doormats? That it's ok for them to be useless wastes of space and let someone else do everything for them? A mutually agreed one parent stays at home to look after the house and kids is a completely different thing. This is one parent being a lazy self centred dick. If he was even trying to deal with it (e.g. taking the damned medication as per the prescription) maybe, but he's not.

As far as you're relationship, what exactly are you getting for your hard graft? A husband who cheats, doesn't want you and treats you like a bank?

My wife doesn't work. We agreed on this as it didn't make sense for her to do so financially. This is a mutually respectful decision. Him being an apathetic lump is not a respectful decision. It's you enabling his selfish behaviour.

It's ultimatum time. He either get's his shit together or he packs his shit up. Why should he be costing you your happiness?

As for the sex, buy a good vibrator. At least you won't have to clean up it's mess. The vibrator will also have FAR more respect for you than he does.

Do you have no friends who will go to IKEA with you? Take the kids. Fill them up with meatballs and Daim cake and they're so much more agreeable to ambling around and looking at unpronounceable furniture.

OP I have some understanding of this as my ex-husband was not dissimilar (though not as bad, from what you've said here). This doesn't come from a position of judgement, but sympathy.

But you are enabling his behaviour and ultimately setting a terrible example to your children.

You have become very codependent and you have come to see yourself as almost a literal lifeline, supporting him financially, mentally, etc. You have trained yourself to think there is no alternative, probably through a combination of guilt and the fact that you have read up extensively on his mental health situation.

The reality is that your behaviour, while probably initially well-intentioned, is actually fuelling his dependency. I realise that leaving him will cause his health to spiral out of control and that this isn't something you can do lightly. But you simply can't maintain a situation indefinitely where you are basically acting as life support for one another.

It sets a terrible example to your children: that marriage and relationships are about morbid codependency, and that contempt is the natural state of affairs in relationships between adults.

I'm not minimising how difficult it will be to extricate yourself from this situation. You will have to prepare yourself for months of guilt and difficulty. But you have to do it. You can't inflict this on another generation of your family.

OP from what you say, you seem to justify all this due to your husbands supposedly terrible childhood. Do you think it was worse than yours?

Reading between the lines there seems to be a strange dynamic in your own birth family. Your father is spoken of in the same terms as your husband and you say you are now bankrolling your mother too.
What’s going on there? Is your relationship with your mother a healthy one?

It would seem you are living with a drug and alcohol addict. The behaviour you describe would stem from that more than from mental illness per se.

You sound like you could crash and burn due to the stress of suppressing your feelings on this traumatic life you are living.
If you go down it all falls apart, or does it?

www.goodreads.com/book/show/720298.Codependent_No_More

A classic on codependency

Why did you move him back in? Move him back out, he can probably pull himself together enough to be an occasional Disney dad which would be better for the dc than seeing him stuck to the sofa with no purpose in life every day. Do you want your dc to think this is a good way to live? He can have a relationship with the dc without living in the house with you, plenty of people do, it might give him a reason to make some effort as he definitely doesn’t have a reason at the moment.

@AbstractEim

Why did you move him back in? Move him back out, he can probably pull himself together enough to be an occasional Disney dad which would be better for the dc than seeing him stuck to the sofa with no purpose in life every day. Do you want your dc to think this is a good way to live? He can have a relationship with the dc without living in the house with you, plenty of people do, it might give him a reason to make some effort as he definitely doesn’t have a reason at the moment.

This. In spades.

My ex, who had a lot of similar traits to yours (depression, alcoholism, total dependency), has actually sorted himself out to some degree since we split up -- it took a few years but he got there. He lives on his own, still drinks too much and his mental health is up and down but he is coping and financially independent and able to put on a good face for our daughter when he sees her.

He's a classic Disney Dad: sees my daughter about once a fortnight, no financial support whatsoever, almost no childcare, showers her with gifts and is generally pretty useless but makes her feel special.

It's not what I'd have wanted in a life partner but he is at least a benevolent and loving presence to her. And most importantly he's located out of my home where he can't continue to drain my finances and suck the life energy out of the family with his depressing behaviour. I thoroughly recommend it.

It’s so difficult to respond to this post without saying the obvious OP but I sympathise how difficult it must be to work very hard and feeling like you’re getting nothing back

I totally agree with .HeadNorth on the first page of this thread. Easier said than done though

I’ve not RTFT but I honestly think if you split you wouldn’t be dealing with ‘another fuckwit’ cos you’d have learned from this relationship- you’d be with someone with a similar work ethic to you in all likelihood

@needsomeperspective

I don’t live in the U.K. I’m very happy with my legal position.

What I don’t fancy is swapping this unsatisfactory marriage (from my perspective - not my kids) for a worse situation where I’m just alone or dealing with a different kind of fuckwit.

By the sounds of it you're perfectly capable of managing on your own. You don't have to have a partner. let alone a fuckwit. If you meet someone in future then great but being single is better than what you've described.

Have you ever actually been single?My experience of it ( pretty much my entire 30s)is it's absolutely tonnes better than your marriage sounds. And I was poor.

I grew up in a similar environment to the one you’re describing OP. Not the same - my mum didn’t have things together in the way it sounds like you do. But similar, in the sense my father couldn’t really function as a parent or anything else because of mental health issues and alcoholism. And my mother enabled him - because of low self esteem I think.

It was REALLY toxic. I was very much aware of it even as a fairly young child. I’m not sure if it would have been better if they’d split up but that’s because my mother wasn’t a competent parent either really, whereas it sounds like you are.

People often talk about empathy for people with addiction but frankly I think there’s a fine line between empathy and enabling. And I do think from what you’ve said that you are enabling him. You provide him with an environment in which he doesn’t have to face up to the consequences of his behaviour. The very opposite in fact. His behaviour benefits him. He doesn’t have to work, parent his own children, and he has a lovely comfortable lifestyle. Why would he change? And that’s enabling.

I’m sorry, this probably isn’t helpful, but having some personal experience of this I would strongly advise against keeping an alcoholic around ‘for the sake of the children’ or ‘for the sake of not being alone’.

How do you reconcile yourself to the situation?
Well, by accepting that you are in this situation because you choose to be. You have and have always had several options and you are choosing this life. Tbh, if you're planning to stay in it then all you can do is take full responsibility for your decision and accept that you are getting exactly what you've decided to get. There's really no other way to come to terms with it is there? You could leave but you don't want to. For reasons that you feel are sound, this is the life you want. (Want as in prefer out of the options realistically available to you)

Been there . Done the hanging on until the children were grown up . But on little money. When I left I had years of feeling guilty because he was such a poor coper. The adult children rallied around him ( he was in good physical health and not old) whilst I was the “ baddie”
Then , he manipulated my DD into giving up an amazing ,never to be repeated opportunity as “ who will look after me”He was a healthy adult with a house , money and family and friends. I was blamed.” If you hadn’t left him I would have been able to go”But she still blamed me for leaving. I now think he had trapped her as well although she had her own home he was a useful childminder for her children at the time and I think she put up with him because of that .
I keep in contact but my annoyance turned to anger and my anger to hatred.

20 years on I’m old and alone . Still poor . 1 of my children speaks to me . The other regularly sends hateful messages about my morals , my appearance and my parenting skills. She has told relatives awful lies about me . In the way her father used to. I have never regretted leaving . I so regret staying . I could have saved myself and perhaps my unhappy adult child .
Please do not think that you will walk away at a specific time in the future . The damage has been done. If a friend ( or one of your children) was in your situation, what would you advise ? I also recognise that feeling of despair( perhaps how you were feeling at time of your original post) and then the back tracking “ oh it’s not so bad “ But you know it is . He has passed away . I’m living out my life as best I can .

It’s been incredibly helpful reading others stories and similar experiences. I suppose I feel sort paralysed. I am here because I feel the negatives of keeping him here are outweighed by the negatives of divorcing him. Sometimes I can feel almost happy for a few weeks at a time but it always cycles back to this.

My mother regrets staying with all her heart. She isn’t the forgiving type and held a deep seated contempt for my father for decades. And she chose to stay even after if grown up. My father died of cancer about 6 years ago and she regularly laments all the things she missed out on because of her choices - but they were HER choices - certainly after I’d left home. As a 1980s housewife she didn’t have the financial wherewithal to leave when I was a child. But certainly could have later. But she didn’t want to give up her cosy house, financial security, social circle etc.

At the end of the day we all have to live with the consequences of our decisions. And without a crystal ball we simply cannot project what would have been the correct path.

I don’t like my marriage how it is. I feel taken advantage of, unloved, emotionally unsupported, drained to the core a lot of the time. I don’t think however that i would be likely to feel any happier attempting to cope as a full time working single parent who would still have to financially fund my ex - if I wanted to facilitate any regular contact with the children (because if I didn’t he would have to leave this country) and co-parent with someone who would be extremely difficult to work with effectively whilst having to be parted, at least for some time, from my children. How is that better?!

There isn’t a happy ending to this story. All paths lead to some level of hardship, pain and misery, for me at least. I just need to remind myself that I have tried to pick the path of least misery I suppose, and comfort myself with the fact that life could be worse - and for many it is.

There isn’t a happy ending to this story. All paths lead to some level of hardship, pain and misery, for me at least. I just need to remind myself that I have tried to pick the path of least misery I suppose, and comfort myself with the fact that life could be worse - and for many it is.

I totally understand how you can have got to this mindset, but I think you are selling yourself short and deliberately holding yourself back from doing what you know you need to do.

You're lucky to be in a very strong financial position: that counts for a lot - a lot of women in your situation are trapped. You're not trapped.

I was in a similar position to you in that my husband depended on me financially for years after we separated: I paid his rent on and off for about five years. It's only been since the divorce (which I funded and which he benefited from) that I've actually been free of it. I have spent well over £100k, through a combination of divorce settlement and ongoing support, and not seen a penny myself.

But it was still worth it and I'd do it again if I had to. Because the feeling of being free of the millstone of someone else's endless, bottomless dependency is worth its weight in gold. And because ultimately I have taught my daughter that I won't spend the rest of my life being weighed down financially and emotionally by his needs.

Short term misery or long term misery.

I don’t think however that i would be likely to feel any happier attempting to cope as a full time working single parent...

You are already a full time working single parent. And a full time carer to a grown adult who is not even trying to heal himself.

...who would still have to financially fund my ex...

You have an ironclad post-nup. Maybe if his 'safety net' were taken away he'd actually DO something to better his mental health. Enabling him isn't helping him. It's actually hurting him.

.....if I wanted to facilitate any regular contact with the children
(because if I didn’t he would have to leave this country) and co-parent with someone who would be extremely difficult to work with

It is a myth that a BAD parent is worse than no parent at all. An absolute myth. Your children are much better off with a happy, 'at peace' mum than they are with a shit father and an unhappy, drained mum. I am not ignoring his MH issues. But he's not a good father unless he addresses them. Continually. Just as a diabetic must continually monitor their insulin.

And have you actually contacted an immigration lawyer about his visa? Why would he have to leave? You've been married for 13 years, surely he has permanent residency by now? If not that may be something that could be 'sorted' before you separate.

...effectively whilst having to be parted, at least for some time, from my children. How is that better?!

Do you really think he'd want to have absolute charge of the children for any real length of time? I don't. And if he did I bet he'd happily consent to you providing a paid nanny to do the parenting for him keep an eye on him during any contact time.

You must do what you must do. But I think you're putting obstacles in front of yourself that are not valid and don't need to be there.

Contempt is a poisonous attitude that is destructive to the person who feels it and lacking in fundamental compassion for the person who provokes it.

I can completely understand why you feel contempt, but to avoid damaging yourself or disrespecting another human being you should probably absent yourself from the relationship that is causing it.

@needsomeperspective

I don’t live in the U.K. I’m very happy with my legal position.

What I don’t fancy is swapping this unsatisfactory marriage (from my perspective - not my kids) for a worse situation where I’m just alone or dealing with a different kind of fuckwit.

Genuinely asking, why do you think it's worse to be single than this? It would be a lot better. And the love of your life could be waiting round the corner. But single can be wonderful, too. And why would you need one night stands with morons?

The alternative is a lot rosier than you paint it out to be, but I'm guessing you're trying to persuade yourself that staying with the guy is the only option.

It'd be a lot better for the kids too, if you two did divorce. He isn't much of a role model and it's not a healthy relationship role modeled, either.

The path of least misery long term is to leave. Otherwise this is it, OP. This is it, this is your life, always like this. The next 40 odd years. Rip the band aid off and you'll find a lot less misery long term.

I think there's a lot more out there for you.

This is it, this is your life, always like this. The next 40 odd years

Yes, and even though 40 years is a very long time - longer if you are desperately unhappy!! - they will be gone in a flash. Trust me on that.

And you'll be beating yourself up for having wasted your life.

And possibly dealing with the fallout of how all this will have affected your children. Dysfunctional families rarely produce happy adults...

But parents divorcing does produce happy adults does it?

@needsomeperspective

I don’t live in the U.K. I’m very happy with my legal position.

What I don’t fancy is swapping this unsatisfactory marriage (from my perspective - not my kids) for a worse situation where I’m just alone or dealing with a different kind of fuckwit.

Why are you with him? For the occasional sex… what’s the point? I’d rather get a vibrator and do it myself! It doesn’t sound like you get anything at all out of the marriage. I felt sorry for him at first, until you said he was unfaithful, then I thought no way… Chuck him… he isn’t your problem!

The kids were fine when you separated because they didn't have him in the house and probably barely noticed he'd gone other than a lack of stench of stale beer and self pity.

They weren't upset because they were no worse off - it's just as likely they were actually happier.

Don't you think that if they were bothered by the separation or benefited from his dragging you all down that they might have been just a teeny bit distressed? But they were absolutely fine.