For viewing my H with contempt

[needsomeperspective]

My H and I have now been married for almost 13 years. Two children. He has long term mental health issues stemming from an abusive childhood. Frankly I have known for a decade that he has BPD. He takes anti anxiety meds and anti psychotics (when he can be bothered to keep on top of them or as long as I police him like a child). He hasn’t had any job in over six years, no “real” job in ten. He spends much of his time sleeping in very late while I work my ass off to keep our family (and my mother) financially solid - fortunately I have a very good job - but along with that comes it’s own stresses for me as I am responsible for over 300 staff.

I’m lucky enough to have help with the kids and a cleaner. I’ve deliberately arranged my life so that I do not have to rely on my husband in any material way - because he isn’t dependable. He has cheated on me, he used to be emotionally volatile, now he is just an apathetic lump.

He is, all challenges considered, often a loving, kind and involved father and the children undoubtedly benefit from having him in their lives and in their home.

From my perspective we have an almost non existent sex life, and I frequently feel like I’m running a doss house for vagrants than participating in some kind of partnership. But it’s better than having no one. We’ve been very isolated during Covid.

I put in place (following his infidelity) a cast iron post nup which he agreed to sign so I’m not “trapped” in this marriage for financial reasons but I do feel that the children would be much better off if we stayed together and frankly I can’t see how I’d be happier as a single parent compared to this inadequate and pathetic marriage I’m in right now. Some sex is better than none - or one night stands with morons. At least I have someone to visit IKEA with.

How do I reconcile myself to the limitations of this situation and generate the compassion to view my husband as a victim of his mental health issues rather than a useless, feckless, contemptible burden surgically attached to the sofa and piggy backing on my years of relentless hard work - which frankly I often feel.

You hate him. Sort it out, this is no way to live kids or not.

OP, putting his MH to one side my view is that the thing that cements two people together through all the ups and downs is love and friendship. The way you describe your time with your DH sounds 100% joyless. I feel for him and you but I do respect the fact that his untreated condition impacts your MH as his loved one. My adult DD has BPD and I know it’s tough.
You can separate but remain friends. Maybe that shift would help to end his inertia. Have you actually given him any ultimatums?

You know the phrase "nature abhors a vacuum" well it's true.

You're in stalemate, limbo etc.
Every day you get up and you have so much responsibility, your children, your employees and this man.
But we all have to take responsibility for ourselves first because we cannot look after anyone else if we burn out.

Do you believe that you deserve to be happy, to have a partner that is there for you emotionally, practically and loves and care for you?
Are you happy with the type of relationship structure you are modelling for your children?
Would you be ok if they ended up in a similar situation when they grow up?

Are you really helping your partner by enabling him to not take responsibility for his own health and life?
What would happen if the exhaustion made you ill, who would take on your responsibilities and look after you?
It's absolutely great that despite his own childhood and poor mental health, your DH is still able to be a loving father, but that doesn't have to change if you separate. You'll always share the children and hopefully your DH will start to take his medication and have therapy. It's terribly stressful to have to monitor someone's medication if they aren't compliant. Just that scenario alone changes the dynamic and there's nothing attractive about having to mother a grown man who isn't your naughty little boy!

You're in a good position in the sense you can afford childcare and help with the house - that's very often a massive barrier to leaving situations like yours; as a pp said you could get an aupair to help you full time.

In terms of meeting someone new - you wouldn't have to rush into anything and you could just concentrate on your social life, see old friends, make new ones, take up a hobby or something you've always wanted to do.
You'll find your groove, your self etc.

I know you could choose to read this and just see a lot of platitudes but the vacuum thing is true and nothing new and good can come in until you create that space.

@Lotusmonster

Has his support as a home carer enabled you to be the breadwinner and have the latitude to develop your career? Has he done school runs, cooked meals, got the kids to bed, supported homeworks, dealt with school admin, sick kids, laundry, housework, shopping, cleaning, packed lunches etc etc? Or have you done all that on top of your job?? I’m just asking?

Intermittently. Not consistently. We have had a nanny for almost the entire time since the kids were born. For a couple of years we tried without one because I thought it would give him a sense of self esteem to be “indispensable”. It didn’t go well. He ended up farming out almost all the household chores (ironing, gardening, car washing, house cleaning etc) to agencies while he vegetated on the sofa, the kids were late to school and / or sometimes didn’t even get taken because he was too hungover or made some excuse why they couldn’t go. The culmination of that experiment was him having pretty much a breakdown and affair with one of our neighbours who had also had a sexually, physically and emotionally abusive childhood - this creating some fucked up bond between them.

I discovered the affair and told her husband. They separated. After a few weeks of attempting to get him sane I politely removed my husband from my house, employed a nanny, moved my mother in and rented him a bed sit. He started taking anti psychotics, gradually became sane again, cut off contact with utterly psycho other woman who “attempted suicide” (for attention only). Eventually after nearly a year of living apart I allowed him to move back in. That was over a year ago.

So no, I do not consider him to have made an exceptional contribution to my successful career development. In fact I very much consider that I’ve managed to thrive at work despite the not inconsiderable traumas he has regularly subjected me to over the course of our marriage.

Frankly I’d ding it a thousand times harder to cope without our nanny / housekeeper / driver / person who helps me with anything I could ever need than to cope without him. Although he does occasionally take up some slack with cooking (when I moan that I have to do it after a nine hour day at work, and provided I write down a weekly menu and order all shopping / ingredients).

OP,
I feel so sorry for your children.

You are in truly massive denial and completely deluded if you imagine your children don't see clearly how fxxked up your dynamic is.

Why do you believe your kids benefit from having him in their lives?

You need therapy to figure out why on earth you have subjected yourself to such a miserable existence for so many years. It just isn't normal or healthy, especially for a woman as self-sufficient as you are. Your posts absolutely drip of bile, bitterness and barely masked rage. This marriage has literally poisoned you. You must get out of it, for yourself and your children.

What about when the kids are older can you see yourself growing old with him

@needsomeperspective

I don’t live in the U.K. I’m very happy with my legal position.

What I don’t fancy is swapping this unsatisfactory marriage (from my perspective - not my kids) for a worse situation where I’m just alone or dealing with a different kind of fuckwit.

I can't see how being single would be worse than the situation you're in tbh And do you want your children thinking this is normal for relationships?

I voted yabu for staying with him. It's not better for your kids. How is this a good example to them or a relationship or boundaries or anything? Being a single mum is hard, true, but it's a fuck tonne easier than being with someone who is depressed and anxious. I know. I did it for 15 years and have been split for two. Even with the money worries you'll escape it's been blissfully reduced in stress and the kids and I have bother benefitted. Don't stay. Let him be a good father from a different home.

And don't knock online dating, hooking up and fwb. All far more entertaining than duty sex with a man you don't respect.

@needsomeperspective I don't think your feelings are disgusting at all. It sounds like you live somewhere very conservative where being a single parent is looked at as something shameful for the woman, that is disgusting.

You may think you are excellent at keeping this hidden. But you can’t keep this depth of feeling hidden. You may not be saying it out loud, but your inner attitude will be corroding the foundations of your relationship and family life, and the things you don’t do, don’t say, or the way that you do or say them, will speak to your husband and your children in a way neither you nor they can articulate; but it’s always there, a silent influence.

Surely it’s time to bring this marriage to an amicable conclusion OP.

I think it's quite damaging for your children to see their dad behaving as you describe and you enabling him.

As a separated mother of two… if you think the kids won’t pick up on, and be damaged by, the bad vibes in your relationship then I’m afraid you’re very wrong. You’re modelling a poor relationship and by staying together, the signal you’re giving is that it’s fine to live that way. Very few adults from an unhappy marriage are grateful for parents who stayed together for their sake, from those I’ve spoken with.

I really feel for you, it sounds like your marriage has slowly wrung every last bit of feeling and empathy you had for your husband out of you, and at this point you are weary and battle hardened. From your posts you have had to shoulder an enormous amount in your relationship to keep your family going, because no one else would.

I'd urge you to ask yourself at what point in the future will it have been enough, and plan for that point. I like another posters idea of thinking if a five year plan- you deserve happiness too and hopefully the joy that comes with having a true partner.

I also wanted to share my perspective as a person living with BPD, though my experiences are likely very different from your husband's. It is one of my worst nightmares that my husband would ever feel as trapped and contemptuous in our marriage as you are feeling, I would truly rather he leave me for his own sake if we ever came close. You don't owe your husband your support if it comes at a cost of sacrificing your self care. For your husband to make progress he needs to want to, and put in some damn hard work. If he can't or won't you won't ever be able to change that, and may very well look back on these years in the future wishing you had prioritized yourself more.

Are you afraid of change, OP? Maybe you're so mentally exhausted that you can't bear the thought of going through a divorce?

You know there's no real reason to stay in that marriage. Nobody wins - not you, or your children, or possibly even your husband. You said that when you split up he pulled his socks up, because he had to, right? So he can do it.

You can do it too x

Op do you hide your contempt of your husband from your children?

It sounds like a completely miserable existence.

What I don’t want is to be in a position where my children spend half their time with someone who is not mentally well. I also have no illusions that my H can be trusted to only bring healthy and positive people into their lives - it’s incredibly likely that he will either disappear completely (he has done this with his son from a previous relationship who he hasn’t seen since he was 3 years old - he is now 22) or get involved with another nutcase woman in short order given his incredibly poor judgement.

At least if we are all together under one roof I can ensure that even if my children are not seeing the picture perfect model of the Walton’s marriage they aren’t shuffled off for half their lives to whatever god awful situation my husband would inevitably end up getting himself into if he wasn’t safely ensconced here.

If I cannot fully trust him to take responsibility for the children’s welfare in our own home then I’m hardly likely to think it sensible to give him carte blanche to fully fuck them up without me there to protect and support them.

This was a key deciding factor in my decision to allow him to move back in after his “affair” / breakdown.

Whilst you may not believe it from reading my venting on here I do not always feel this resentment and bitterness towards my husband. I would say 30% of the time I feeling extremely loving, 30% compassionate / understanding, 30% generally tolerant and resigned and 10% raging with contempt and disgust.

Rationally I KNOW it’s not his CHOICE to be this way. He wouldn’t choose to lie in bed all day in the dark because he can’t bear to get out of it. He wouldn’t choose to have zero motivation to do anything with his life, or feel suspicious if everyone, or feel like he is a worthless human being, or be stupidly vulnerable to manipulative people pressing his buttons, or feel paralysed with fear of being alone causing catastrophic errors of judgement or emotional outbursts. No one would choose that.

But if he is here I can keep him as stable as possible, make sure he takes his pills, manage his extremes and moderate the impact of his illness on our kids in a way I couldn’t if he was cast adrift unsupported and had them on his own half the week.

@Lotusmonster

DBT is quite different to CBT. The participant is not able to progress through the therapy until the therapist is totally happy that the participant has made the changes. This therapy is trying to achieve serious re-wiring and it is clinically proven ….NICE approve it in the UK. But the commitment OP is huge. It’s a full time job actually with daily exercises for 1-2 years. Repeating the course is not uncommon. Given BPD carries a high suicidal risk, he has a lot of reasons to get his shit together OP. It doesn’t bear thinking about the slide BPD can take. But whilst I feel your pain, shaming him and talking to him in a shaming way won’t work. Validation is a key part of understanding BPD. The person with BPD feels that their feelings aren’t validated. It to me, you are feeling the same….so I’m not sure where to begin with this!

I completely disagree with this. He currently doesn't have a lot of reasons to access therapy. He gets to drink himself into a stupor and stay in bed until 6pm, doesn't need to work, gets everything done for him. He has every reason to not seek help. EUPD I'm sure can be hellish to live with, but therapy is scary. If it does improve his mental state, he'll be expected to start acting like an adult and parent. Easier to do nothing and keep drinking and doing whatever he feels like, with the eternal excuse of " I'm ill, it's not my fault"

OP, anyone judging you negatively has no idea of how mentally exhausting it can be for the partner of someone like your husband. Especially when you have to hold down a job and look after DC as well. I think you've done brilliantly, but I do agree with almost everyone else when they say that separation is the best way to go. You can't help someone who won't help themselves!

You know that you can go to IKEA together and even have sex if you both want to even when you're divorced?

“What would happen if the exhaustion made you ill, who would take on your responsibilities and look after you?“

I already knowing the answer to this question. Two years ago exactly this happened. I was cracking at the seams even beforehand but when I found out about his affair I literally fell to bits after years and years of having to carry everything. I was fined off work for a month, lost 15 pounds in two weeks and took myself off to the doctor for a cocktail of anti anxiety medication because I had panic attacks which were insupportable.

Of course my husband was nowhere. As soon as I show any weakness or appear to need support he is gone. I was extremely fortunately that my mother was staying with me and made sure I ate and washed. I pulled my socks up after a few weeks and got on with things because - well who else was going to provide for everyone and everything if I didn’t?

I’m fully, painfully, aware that I would have no support from my H because he simply isn’t capable of providing it. I’m sure he wishes he was but that’s just the bare fact of the situation. If I didn’t work, we would be bankrupt. If I didn’t get up with the children every morning they would spend all day on their iPads and wouldn’t go to school. If I didn’t shop we would starve. If I relied on him for emotional comfort I would be bereft.

I think its very admirable of you to put your DC first in all of this but TBH, illness or not, I think infidelity would be a deal breaker for me.

@jgjgjgjgjg

You know that you can go to IKEA together and even have sex if you both want to even when you're divorced?

HA! Done get to have sex now let alone if we were divorced 🤣

OP, I think your reasoning is based on flawed premises:

1. You believe it is your responsibility to keep your husband afloat. Whilst I understand you value the vows you made, your husband does have some responsibility for his own actions. If you divorce him, you are no longer responsible for him in any way, other than perhaps financially.
2. (in relation) you seem to think that you would be doing something bad if you left him. You are allowed to divorce him! This is no way to live!!! Referring back to my previous point, he is choosing (to some extent) to live like this. Hell, you've done everything you can to help him but he's not doing his part. I would argue that he is far more responsible for the breakdown of your relationship than you are.
3. your kids need a dad. What do people mean when they say this? I can guarantee you they do not have your husband in mind! It means kids need a good male role model. That he is most certainly not! If he beat you up, would you still be saying they needed a dad?
4. Having something (him) is better than nothing. I would argue though that sum total of his qualities is negative. In other words, he adds much more negativity to your life than that he contributes positively. Leaving him would therefore not be losing something, but bringing the balance back to 0 or above.

Please, please reconsider what you're doing. What is the benefit of waiting until the kids have gone to college?