For viewing my H with contempt

[needsomeperspective]

My H and I have now been married for almost 13 years. Two children. He has long term mental health issues stemming from an abusive childhood. Frankly I have known for a decade that he has BPD. He takes anti anxiety meds and anti psychotics (when he can be bothered to keep on top of them or as long as I police him like a child). He hasn’t had any job in over six years, no “real” job in ten. He spends much of his time sleeping in very late while I work my ass off to keep our family (and my mother) financially solid - fortunately I have a very good job - but along with that comes it’s own stresses for me as I am responsible for over 300 staff.

I’m lucky enough to have help with the kids and a cleaner. I’ve deliberately arranged my life so that I do not have to rely on my husband in any material way - because he isn’t dependable. He has cheated on me, he used to be emotionally volatile, now he is just an apathetic lump.

He is, all challenges considered, often a loving, kind and involved father and the children undoubtedly benefit from having him in their lives and in their home.

From my perspective we have an almost non existent sex life, and I frequently feel like I’m running a doss house for vagrants than participating in some kind of partnership. But it’s better than having no one. We’ve been very isolated during Covid.

I put in place (following his infidelity) a cast iron post nup which he agreed to sign so I’m not “trapped” in this marriage for financial reasons but I do feel that the children would be much better off if we stayed together and frankly I can’t see how I’d be happier as a single parent compared to this inadequate and pathetic marriage I’m in right now. Some sex is better than none - or one night stands with morons. At least I have someone to visit IKEA with.

How do I reconcile myself to the limitations of this situation and generate the compassion to view my husband as a victim of his mental health issues rather than a useless, feckless, contemptible burden surgically attached to the sofa and piggy backing on my years of relentless hard work - which frankly I often feel.

You really think this life is good for your children? You're deluding yourself.

@ItsDinah

You don't want to be lumbered with him in retirement or even when the kids are off to college. I suggest you devise a plan -say a 5 year plan- on how you can establish yourself as a single without him. The contempt will eat away at you. Try to dilute the time you spend with him with other adult company. Be very active about cultivating social contacts that don't involve being part of a couple.

This is excellent advice thank you. One of the reasons I insisted on a post nup was so that I could plan a pragmatic and less complicated exit when the kids leave for college (8 years). I’d be 50. Not too late to start again.

I don't believe the utter contempt you hold him in is as hidden as you think it is. He's cock lodging and your children know you don't respect him.

You're damaging your children and you wouldn't be asking if you thought you weren't.

Contempt is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse as regards marriage.

So you could try looking into research by the Gottman Institute about contempt in a relationship.

Incidentally, BPD is a controversial diagnosis with a lot of people. Some see it as basically a way of further stigmatising, scapegoating and harming victims of abuse. Your husband might want to look into C-PTSD if he hasn’t already. The treatments there are a bit less “medicate them up to the eyeballs and forget about them”.

My fear of that was mixed with a horrible sneaking feeling that in some tiny way it would almost be a relief if he was dead. Because I’d HAVE to then move on without having to support him in every way as well as supporting my children and elderly mother.
How disgusting is it that I could feel this way.

Not disgusting at all.

A sign that somewhere did inside of you is a kernel of sanity.

Go and explore these feelings with a therapist.

I can almost guarantee that you will find that you've known all along what you need to do.

DEEP, not did...

And by the way your attitude to mental health issues is beneath contempt OP.

@EducatingArti

What is he doing to address his issues? Does he actually want to work through the childhood trauma to get to a place where he relates to it differently? Psychotherapy is really hard work but the right therapist ( and it may take trying a few different people/modalities to find the right one) could make a real difference. He has to want this though.

It’s a very relevant question. I have supported him through years of visits to psychiatrists, tolerated rounds of varying experiments with different t anti depressant, anti anxiety anti psychotic medications, paid for extortionately expensive CBT and other therapists. He never continues the therapy, doesn’t follow the advice to exercise and avoid alcohol, simply cannot summon the motivation to finally help himself.

I want to feel compassionate and understanding but after 13 years of this I just feel like he is totally pathetic for not being able to get himself together having been given every single possible support in place to help him. At nearly 50 he continues to blame his abusive childhood for all his woes. At what point does it become your responsibility as an adult to fix yourself and become a decent valuable human being - for the sake of your own children?

@KhoshkaKatya

Contempt is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse as regards marriage.

So you could try looking into research by the Gottman Institute about contempt in a relationship.

Incidentally, BPD is a controversial diagnosis with a lot of people. Some see it as basically a way of further stigmatising, scapegoating and harming victims of abuse. Your husband might want to look into C-PTSD if he hasn’t already. The treatments there are a bit less “medicate them up to the eyeballs and forget about them”.

He has been through CBT for chronic PTSD. And medicated up to the eyeballs. Didn’t manage to complete or keep up the therapy. He has at least improved over the years - he is now at least not physically aggressive and much less moody and volatile than in years past. Which is usual with BPD. It’s obviously easier to tolerate his mental health issues when they don’t result in him physically intimidating and abusing me. The Latuda has been a godsend in that regard.

My “appalling” attitude towards mental health issues is probably the result of over a decade of suffering because of someone else’s problems. People seem to parrot the mantra “it’s so much worse for the person who has the mental health issue” - frankly I disagree - in my view the people who have to tolerate the impact of this behaviour - in the cold light of full sanity - have it at least as bad.

So basically he’s sick but doesn’t take meds, cheats on you etc and lounges around and you think he needs a kick up the arse?

I really think with this you’re a better woman than I am and I couldn’t have respect for someone who so literally treats me and his illness with something of a cavalier attitude. However I have a low tolerance for this sort of person and I’ve also worked for a divorce lawyer where I saw an awful lot of relationships like this.

Sorry to say but I’d divorce let him have good access to the kids but get on with your life. You only have one life and I’d be beyond fed up in your shoes.

BPD is a very complex MH condition. It is known not to be treatable with drug therapy alone. DBT (Dialectical Behaviour therapy) and MBT are known to be effective therapy approaches used here in the UK. These therapies require full time commitment for a year but can be transformational….has he ever done any of these therapies. BPD can also be a ‘curable’ condition, meaning that some people when measured post therapy would no longer hit the criteria as having the condition. Alcoholism often concurrent….but a shame based alcohol support program such as AA is not great for BPD people ..some thing like Smart Recovery would be better.

In a nutshell, my view is that there is much your DH could be throwing himself at to improve his life and save his relationship….but it’s a massive commitment and inner desire for change. You can probably tell from my tone that I have some sympathy here for his MH condition. It is a serious but treatable condition that sadly is hugely stigmatised and misunderstood. You have to decide if you have the will left to push and support him.

Your marriage is an unmitigated hell, and your children absolutely, 100% know how miserable you are. This is a terrible example being set for them as to what to expect and demand from a relationship. Staying in this marriage benefits no one, and why you would waste 8 more years is mind boggling.

Perhaps your biggest problem is that you're afraid of change, and it's seemingly easier to maintain the status quo. You deserve far better than this.

@Lotusmonster

BPD is a very complex MH condition. It is known not to be treatable with drug therapy alone. DBT (Dialectical Behaviour therapy) and MBT are known to be effective therapy approaches used here in the UK. These therapies require full time commitment for a year but can be transformational….has he ever done any of these therapies. BPD can also be a ‘curable’ condition, meaning that some people when measured post therapy would no longer hit the criteria as having the condition. Alcoholism often concurrent….but a shame based alcohol support program such as AA is not great for BPD people ..some thing like Smart Recovery would be better. In a nutshell, my view is that there is much your DH could be throwing himself at to improve his life and save his relationship….but it’s a massive commitment and inner desire for change. You can probably tell from my tone that I have some sympathy here for his MH condition. It is a serious but treatable condition that sadly is hugely stigmatised and misunderstood. You have to decide if you have the will left to push and support him.

All of your post is spot on. and I’d love for him to commit to this and would support it. I very very much doubt his capacity to do so however.

Children form their expectations of relationships form their parents, although I'm a very strong advocate of the nuclear family this sounds like a case that you and the kids would be better off without him.

@KhoshkaKatya

And by the way your attitude to mental health issues is beneath contempt OP.

She's been married to him for nearly 13 years. Do you honestly think she's "beneath contempt"?

I fail to see how living with this benefits your children. Especially if you plan to pull the rug out the moment they leave for university anyway.

All you're doing is continuing his trauma down another generation by passing it onto the children.

It's not your responsibility to fix him or manage him, but it is your responsibility to face up to the impact on your children instead of telling yourself soothing fairy stories about them being fine despite the chaos and volatile, moody, sometimes aggressive dad.

There is no way a child can grow up in a home with one parent behaving like this and the other one suffering as much as you are yet be unaffected.

Is he an alcoholic?

DBT is quite different to CBT. The participant is not able to progress through the therapy until the therapist is totally happy that the participant has made the changes. This therapy is trying to achieve serious re-wiring and it is clinically proven ….NICE approve it in the UK. But the commitment OP is huge. It’s a full time job actually with daily exercises for 1-2 years. Repeating the course is not uncommon. Given BPD carries a high suicidal risk, he has a lot of reasons to get his shit together OP. It doesn’t bear thinking about the slide BPD can take. But whilst I feel your pain, shaming him and talking to him in a shaming way won’t work. Validation is a key part of understanding BPD. The person with BPD feels that their feelings aren’t validated. It to me, you are feeling the same….so I’m not sure where to begin with this!

From the inside it always seems like it would be worse to be alone...but when you finally leave it feels SO much better.

(And I also have CPTSD)

Stop kidding yourself that this is better than being single. It’s not. You’re just scared and that’s understandable. But really this is a dead weight around your neck, in the long run you and the kids would be so much happier.

Has his support as a home carer enabled you to be the breadwinner and have the latitude to develop your career? Has he done school runs, cooked meals, got the kids to bed, supported homeworks, dealt with school admin, sick kids, laundry, housework, shopping, cleaning, packed lunches etc etc? Or have you done all that on top of your job?? I’m just asking?

I feel for you; this all sounds extremely difficult.

I would like to know though how this unproductive, valueless, worthless member of humanity adds anything to your children's lives.

What exactly does he do with or for them? I think it would help to understand why you are stuck with this thought that the kids need him in the house.

@Lotusmonster

DBT is quite different to CBT. The participant is not able to progress through the therapy until the therapist is totally happy that the participant has made the changes. This therapy is trying to achieve serious re-wiring and it is clinically proven ….NICE approve it in the UK. But the commitment OP is huge. It’s a full time job actually with daily exercises for 1-2 years. Repeating the course is not uncommon. Given BPD carries a high suicidal risk, he has a lot of reasons to get his shit together OP. It doesn’t bear thinking about the slide BPD can take. But whilst I feel your pain, shaming him and talking to him in a shaming way won’t work. Validation is a key part of understanding BPD. The person with BPD feels that their feelings aren’t validated. It to me, you are feeling the same….so I’m not sure where to begin with this!

I know. I’ve read very extensively about his mental health problems. I know the worst things to do and the best. I know how to avoid triggering him. I know how to maintain my status as his “favourite person” who he relies on for everything - because if I don’t I become the demon person who is to blame for everything - splitting, idealisation, depersonalisation, terror of abandonment, total lack of self identity, etc etc etc. I know chapter and verse and after all these years I’m practised at avoiding the landlines and tiptoeing around his sensitivities. To my own detriment. Because he is incapable of emotionally supporting me in any way.

And I’m also obviously very aware that voicing my regular inner thoughts such as “FFS can’t you even get up for ONE morning with the kids before school” or “is it seriously too much to ask to even attempt a vestige of a sex life with your wife” or “am I expected to be the sole provider of literally EVERYTHING required for everyone’s survival for the rest of our f@cking lives?!” Or “my god you are worse than a child why the hell can’t you grow up and pull your weight for once this decade” are the worst things I could ever say to someone who is the way he is because he has zero self esteem and was told from the time he could walk that he was worthless. So I don’t say those things. Instead I have spent years telling him how much he is valued, how I will always be there, always forgiving his screw ups, trying to build him up, arranging training courses so he can try and get a job, telling him how much he is loved and appreciated.

But he knows. He knows that underlying all that it’s undeniable fact that he actually contributes almost zero to anything, that I deserve a thousand times more than the measly crumbs he is capable of offering as a partner. He KNOWS it’s true. And until he can actually make something of himself and stop being a useless fuckwit he will never get better. And I’m lumbered with this rescue puppy and all that entails unless I want to pull my kids lives apart.

The disgust you feel about your husband is more than obvious so your kids can absolutely see this. I know you'll say they can't and how would I know but honestly but the way you've worded all your posts about his is so awful you can't possibly be keeping your feelings as hidden as you think you are. YABU in thinking of anyone with contempt and you're not really coming over very well yourself!