To think that men have turned into neanderthals?

[Sparklfairy]

I've lived in my city for three years, never had any trouble. In the last few weeks I've had a weird guy follow me and give me his number, witnessed a sexual assault, kicked some drunk guy out of the pub myself and had another bloke follow me around saying he wanted to have sex with me.

WTF is going on? I genuinely think that men's 'standards' have dropped and they're now regressing to animals

There's no such thing as men "as a class".

I do agree that NAMALT is maddening, and also derailing.

Only on MN… all men are bastards, all women are glowing angels except for MILS who are all gorgons.
😁😁😁

There's no such thing as men "as a class".

As a gender class, there is. It's a way of referring to men collectively rather than individually.

And the last two posts prove my point about deliberately derailing.

Don't discuss problematic male behaviour, ladies, mustn't upset the men.

They're more worried about defending men than they are about addressing the behaviours being discussed

It's a catch 22 whenever it is said that these women need to talk to the men in their lives about this so they can begin to understand what's being discussed here posters start screaming "It's down to men to sort their own shit out/the behaviour of men is the responsibility of men, not women" etc, which whilst true means nothing will ever change.

That presumes nen want it to change.

Why would , whatever anyone says to any man, men want things to change? They get to be labelled a catch, one of the good guys, they get to be appreciated, and elevated , for the mere act of showing what should be normal regular behaviour. It requires zero effort . Zero change in what they do or how they act.

I dont see anyone wanting to give that up do you?

If the Nigels are as decent as these women say then yes, I imagine they would want things to change.

Hilariously I was just reading a post on my Facebook feed where a poster in a local group had complained about problematic behaviour by an individual who just happened to be a cyclist; and some random men had jumped in with long posts complaining that “not all cyclists are like that” which was just beautiful to watch. They just can’t help it….

@KikoLemons

I think there's been more bad behaviour generally. The fabric of society is more fragile. No-one gives a shit what anyone thinks and they don't have to regulate behaviour to remain part of a group. We can find our own groups online - people who agree that we are 100% right and justified.

Sadly I don't see that changing any time soon.

This! I’ve thought this for a long time.

YANBU!

I agree with some PP that the massive increase in porn usage that has happened since the internet came into our daily lives has brought out the worst in a lot of men.

And that this is starting really young for some. The BBC reported today that sexual abuse committed by under 18s towards other under 18s has doubled in just a couple of years, and 9 out of 10 of the abusers are male. I can't help but think there must be a link between this and these boys accessing porn on their phones. A whole generation are possibly going grow up with a warped idea of what is normal in sex, and I worry for our daughters. How will this affect their adult relationships? Depressing. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58332341

Yep I saw that too on Facebook and there was a fair amount of NAMALTing going on underneath in the comments, trying to pretend that it couldn’t possibly have anything, anything to do with suddenly allowing young children, boys and men to freely and easily access violent hardcore porn any time they like.

There is a really depressing set of cool-girl contrarian ideas that try to pretend that it’s not the fault of the hardcore violent porn, it’s the “fault of the parents” or some such nonsense.

Of fucking course, if you allow young boys to access endless streams of some of the most depraved violent pornography that even ten years ago would have been thought of as extremely “niche” interest - normalising choking, fisting, extreme bondage, slapping, incest and so on, sexual violence and assault against women and girls will increase. Why anyone thinks otherwise is beyond me.

NAMALT is a perfectly valid response to an all men are like that comment.

If feminists don't like hearing NAMALT comments , don't use all men are like that comments.

The thread title just says 'men' with no qualification.

I wonder how long it will be before the phrase 'men as a class' is used as a get out of jail free card?

@AICM

NAMALT is a perfectly valid response to an all men are like that comment.

If feminists don't like hearing NAMALT comments , don't use all men are like that comments.

The thread title just says 'men' with no qualification.

I wonder how long it will be before the phrase 'men as a class' is used as a get out of jail free card?

What are you on about?

Yes I do think porn for anyone, men or women under the age of 18 is extremely harmful.

And yet regularly on mumsnet you will have other women defending porn as natural and normal.

It's really not.

But I also strongly object to phrases 'all men' or 'men do this... ' that's not right, over simplified, a bit meaningless. Also sexist.

'Some men' or 'a lot of male attitudes' or 'lots of men in my experience' or whatever is better and doesn't take much to change in a sentence.

ILikeYourHair

Sorry I might find if hard to dumb it down further.

Quite willing to try if you want though. Just say the word.

So women are supposed to not discuss their lives and they experiences becuaee it makes men feel bad ?

The same men who are their own worst enemies too? The majority of violence against men is at the hands of other men.

It doesn't go away because you make people feel bad discussing it.

Men could change it. They don't. Even the "good" ones benefit from it.

No one is born hating men or feeling that way about men. Men do that entirely by themselves with no help from anyone.

Its the 10th rule if misogyny. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

@ColorMagicBarbie

It is similar to when a terrorist atrocity is committed.

The group state that the majority of them are peaceful and don't do this.

But people don't usually have the guts to discuss ethnic groups' relation to crime in the same way that people openly discuss male violence etc, which is most likely why men feel singled out.

I dare you to start a discussion about why black people are 'over represented in every stage of the criminal justice system' according to ONS figures. Or maybe a discussion about how non-extremist Muslims also 'aren't standing in the way' as you criticise men for doing.

I guarantee it won't end well!

You won't win with this because i actually believe that many people here do believe that it's Muslims' job to sort out the bad muslims.

If feminists don't like hearing NAMALT comments , don't use all men are like that comments.

The thread title just says 'men' with no qualification.

NAFALT. Don’t be a hypocrite now. Not all Feminists are like that. Many feminists in these posts have expressed NAMALT so why are you lumping us all together?

Some of the 'porn' content being produced is just out-and-out torture of women by men.

I watched an interview with a woman who used to work in porn recently, and it took her a couple of attempts for her to describe some of the things she ended up doing. I won't go into it because it upset me, but it involved being made to eat body fluids including her own vomit. She sobbed talking about it. Similar came up in the documentary Hot Girls Wanted.

I don't understand why content like that is legal to produce and show, and why it's even described as pornography. It's just torture of women for the gratification and entertainment of men - and I think it is damaging the men who consume it.

Yes absolutely. I think lots of the porn-minimising posters don’t really know what is now circulating as totally normal. On Tumblr you often get “followed” by random posters or bots, and you click over to see who they are (and block if necessary). Well the other day I clicked on a new follower and it was a porn bot, but the very first gif that flashed up at me was a very young naked woman being hung by her neck with a rope, and swung around a room graphically choking, while a group of older men grabbed, violently beat and sexually assaulted her.

I genuinely felt physically sick on seeing it and can’t get it out of my head; and I’m not easily shockable.

Now imagine your young 12, 13, 14 year old teenager on social media having that graphic video pop up right in their face, and thinking that’s what normal sex is. This is not tits and bums, it’s the kind of stuff that is sadistically violent and depraved in the extreme.

There used to be a thread a few years ago by anti-porn activists on one of the FWR boards containing links to some incredibly disturbing content to show women who were largely unaware what kind of stuff was being watched out there. Now it can pop into your child’s or teenager’s inbox any time, and they will see it before they can even press delete.

NAFALT. Don’t be a hypocrite now. Not all Feminists are like that. Many feminists in these posts have expressed NAMALT so why are you lumping us all together?

I dont get why anyone is worried about this. 2/3 of school girls suffer sexual harassment at or on way to school.. 80+ percent of women Have experienced sexual harassment. There's a rape a day at school. Yes kids as young as 5 are being raped and aexually assaulted at school. 2 women are killed a week by their male partners.

But yes let's all argue how unfair it is that some people might think it upsets men to be wary of all men.